17
   

Are tribal mascots racist?

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2012 11:42 pm
I think there may be an element of whose ox is being gored in this whole thing--I bet if some football team, looking for a fierce name, decided to call themselves the Mafiosi the reaction would be fast and furious.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2012 11:44 pm
@MontereyJack,
Might depend on whether they are packing, and what family they are aligned with.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2012 11:46 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Good point, David. I almost caught that myself.
I take being "treated with indifference"
the same as being treated pretty much the same as everyone else.
SO STIPULATED !

Thay shud put that into the Pledge of Allegiance.





David
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 03:03 am
There was an interview program on the CBC a while back the use of "the Fighting Sioux" by the University of North Dakota. There was a ceremony held in the late 60s during which representatives from both the Spirit Lake Sioux band (whose reservation is entirely within the borders of ND) and the Standing Rock band (which straddles the border between ND and SD) gave the university the right to use the name in perpetuity. Then the NCAA told 19 universities they could not use such names/logos--unless they had explicit permission of the tribes/bands concerned--or they would be barred from post season play.

Now there may be some Sioux who object. However, in the inteview program, the head of the Spirit Lake band council spoke for the continued use of the name/logo, while a white girl spoke against it, claiming to represent Standing Rock. If the Standing Rock band is opposed to the name/logo, why was the spokeman not from the band, rather than a non-Indian academic.

It gets crazier. A group from Spirit Lake sued in Federal court, but their suit was thrown out by a judge who says they lack standing: ESPN article on the case. So, one complaint quees the pitch for everybody? (Oh no . . . i said queet . . . i'm so insensitive.)
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 09:33 am
Quote:
Good point, David. I almost caught that myself.
I take being "treated with indifference"
the same as being treated pretty much the same as everyone else.

The difference is that not everybody is like everybody else.
If, Roger, you and I were rowing a couple of boats across the Hudson and we saw two people in the water, one swimming strongly and the other struggling to stay above water, would it be okay if we treated both of those swimmers with indifference and just keep rowing?

Joe(way haul away, we're bound for better weather)Nation
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 09:51 am
That's weigh haul away

When i was a little boy
So me mother told me
To me!
Weigh haul away, we'll haul away Joe
That if i did not kiss the girls
Me lips would all grow mouldy
To me!
Weigh haul away, we'll haul away Joe

Well first i met a Yankee girl
and she was fat and lazy
To me!
Weigh haul away, we'll haul away Joe
Then i met an Irish girl
She damned near drove me crazy
To me!
Weigh haul away, we'll haul away Joe

Well, weigh haul away
We're bound for better weather
Weigh haul away, we'll haul away Joe . . .


It's a chanty, think of the rhythm of the sailormen pushing on the capstan bars--stamp and go, stamp and go.

No cracks about the Irish.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 09:55 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
Good point, David. I almost caught that myself.
I take being "treated with indifference"
the same as being treated pretty much the same as everyone else.

The difference is that not everybody is like everybody else.
If, Roger, you and I were rowing a couple of boats across the Hudson and we saw two people in the water, one swimming strongly and the other struggling to stay above water, would it be okay if we treated both of those swimmers with indifference and just keep rowing?

Joe(way haul away, we're bound for better weather)Nation


I rather like to think we would go for the one that's drowning, even if he were a white, male, Democrat from New York City.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 09:57 am
@Setanta,
haul that whey away, but leave those curds please

reminds me of Saddam's problems, he felt the Kurds were in the way
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 10:22 am
Quote:
[Kinda weird to me for anyone not Native American to speak for Native Americans who don't like "braves", redskins", "chiefs", etc.

/quote]

I come to this conlcusion pretty quickly. It's interesting that all of us, assuming not many native americans among us, are trying to understand this.

I'd like to hear from a native american on the subject.

I wonder what the celtics would think if the team was in London instead of Boston?

It's always hard to understand the other person's point of view. Isn't that how all this happened in the first place?

Florida State thought about changing from the Seminoles and the Seminoles had an uproar. They were proud of the team's name.

So maybe it's not so much what you are called, rather it's if that's really you or are you trying to take another's role?

The Cherokee are prevelant in the Blue Ridge Mtns here and they wouldn't mind their own school being call that, but would not like a school in Charlotte with that name and those folks dressing up like them. That's my thought, I'm not a Cherokee.

I've always wondered how the Cleveland Indians have kept their name. Chief Wahoo?

ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 01:58 pm
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

I'd like to hear from a native american on the subject.


I believe that was RH on page 2 of this thread


(there are several other native american posters on the boards here who haven't posted to the thread)
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 02:19 pm
@ehBeth,
I have to say, I am a half-breed...

I'm going to bring it up next time I see my buddy Alvie.

I'll report back...
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 07:57 pm
@IRFRANK,
Quote:
Kinda weird to me for anyone not Native American
to speak for Native Americans who don't like "braves", redskins", "chiefs", etc.

IRFRANK wrote:
I come to this conlcusion pretty quickly. It's interesting that all of us,
assuming not many native americans among us, are trying to understand this.

I'd like to hear from a native american on the subject.
I 'm a native American; born in New York, County of Queens.
Whatayawanna know ????????





David
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 07:59 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
you're a dipshit...

what else is there to know?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2012 08:05 pm
@MontereyJack,
Santa Cruz, yeah.

I see I'm many posts behind.

on the subject, I don't know, am listening.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2012 07:05 am
@Rockhead,
Quote:
Re: OmSigDAVID (Post 4990799)
you're a dipshit...

what else is there to know?


agreed
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2012 07:06 am
For these mascots to be considered racist, I think they would need to
have a derogatory connotation or play into a stereotype. I don't think
Chiefs, Sachems, the name of any particular tribe, or even Warriors is
racist.

On the other hand, I think Redskins is and so is the logo of the Cleveland
Indians.

I have mixed feelings about Hokies and Hoyas.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2012 07:56 am
@Setanta,
Set: I've been singing that song a cappella since I heard the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem do it at Newport in 1964 or 65.
Never seen it written out, thanks.
I've also been yelling "Tommy" instead of "to me" which sounded like the brothers were calling out Mr. Makem.

My grandfather was from Caheracruttera, a narrow spot on a narrow road next to the wide, wide sea.

Joe(No. No cracks about the Irish)Nation

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2012 09:25 am
@Joe Nation,
I can see why someone would not necessarily know that it's "weigh." It's a chanty, though, which would be sung "call and response." Often a man physically disabled, especially someone blinded, at sea would be hired to sing and play music. So, when weighing anchor, the men put the bars in the capstan and push to wind up the "messenger," the continuous loop cable with which the heavy hawser of the anchor is brought home. The singer actually sits on the capstan head, going 'round and 'round. The call and response goes like this:

(Blind singer): King Louis was the king of France, before the rev-oh-loo-shy-un

(Crewmen): Weigh haul away, we'll haul away Joe

(Blind singer): Then he got his head cut off, it spoilt his con-sti-too-shy-un

(Crewmen): Weigh haul away, we'll haul away Joe

"To me" is the call for the response. It would only be called two or three times.

"Weigh haul away" is a slow, lugubrious chanty, which would be used for weighing anchor, or setting up a very heavy cable, such as the mainstay.

Others were more lively, and would be used when the men could move the capstan bars more quickly, such as hauling in a large, heavy sail, or setting up small cables such as the forestays or the backstays.

In South Australia i was born

Heave away, haul away

In South Australia 'round Cape Horn

We're bound for South Australia

Haul way you rollin' boys

Heave away, haul away

Haul away you rollin' boys

We're bound for South Australia


Most of that is "call," the "heave away haul away" being the only response. When the boys are almost running 'round the capstan, they won't have much breath for singing. "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is probably the best known chanty in English, and also one in which everybody can sing, if they are so inclined.
0 Replies
 
 

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