I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I watched the last day of the Memorial live...and saw the shot at 16. Truly a great shot. If you can have Jack Nichlaus say it was a great shot...it WAS a great shot.

Sorry mate! thought it was 17...I apologize...And yes, I agree, And Jack said, he thought in the circumstances it was the greatest shot ever!

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Actually, a 20 index (actually a 20.4) is a LOT worse than just one extra shot per hole. All the courses I play are par 72. Bogie golf would put me at 90. I have been shooting in the high 90's...very, very high for someone who usually playing in the mid to high 80's. It has been very discouraging...and I have decided to take a week off from golf...have not played since last Thursday. Gotta regroup!

It appears, I do not know enough about golf to comment...If this is how you feel...I hope you do take some days off and regroup...After all, it is supposed to be fun!

Quote:

I am rooting for Tiger to make a complete recovery. This win at the Memorial should build his confidence; his built confidence should result in lower scores; his lower scores should result in torneys won.

I wish him the best...he is, in my opinion, golfs best gift at the moment.

He truly is! and Golf is not the same without him there...

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I'm scratching my head at this thread still.

Frank APisa wrote:

I have an absence of belief that there are gods...I also have an absence of belief that there are no gods.

Rewrite:

I do not believe there are Gods.
I do not believe there are no Gods.

Rewrite#2:

I do not believe there are Gods.
I do believe there are Gods.

I see your intentions Frank, that you suspend your belief in the existence of God, so an agnostic can not use the word believe or not believe, they can only say I don't know what to believe.

As Failures of Art implied it's is a yes or no when the girl send the note to the boy, and an agnostic analogy on the matter would be something along the line of I don't if I should choose yes or no based on the given knowledge.

1 Reply

@Val Killmore,

Try to conceive of the title this way, Val:

There are people who "believe" gods exist (or that a GOD exists).

I am not one of them.

I do not believe gods exist!

There are other people who "believe" there are no gods.

I am not one of them.

I do not believe there are no gods.

My title is exactly that: I do not believe gods exist...but I do not believe there are no gods.

As I explained within a couple of hours of posting the thread, the reason I wrote the title as I did was to show how the use of the words "belief" and "believe" can distort thinking.

Both of your "re-writes" make the mistake I was trying to illustrate. Both of your re-writes make a false assumption about what is being said. I will discuss this with you at length if you want.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Interesting.
I see believe as a verb.

Let's do some substitution, to see if this makes sense.
believe = run
gods exist = fast
there are no gods = not fast

I do not run fast ... but I do not run, not fast.
Re write:
I do not run fast ... but I do run fast

Yup, still not getting it.

I still need you to illustrate what you mean at full length.

1 Reply

@Val Killmore,

Try to conceive of the title this way, Val:

There are people who "believe" gods exist (or that a GOD exists).

I am not one of them.

I do not believe gods exist!

There are other people who "believe" there are no gods.

I am not one of them.

I do not believe there are no gods.

My title is exactly that: I do not believe gods exist...but I do not believe there are no gods.

As I explained within a couple of hours of posting the thread, the reason I wrote the title as I did was to show how the use of the words "belief" and "believe" can distort thinking.

Both of your "re-writes" make the mistake I was trying to illustrate. Both of your re-writes make a false assumption about what is being said. I will discuss this with you at length if you want.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

What happened to Tiger, mate?

He feel apart Friday?

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Is there anyone here who thinks it is illogical or inconsistent?

Why does the subject read so contradictory. It could have been written in a less confusing way. I think you might mean "you do not personally believe in gods, but there remains the possibility a god could exist.

1 Reply

@korkamann,

korkamann wrote:

Quote:

Is there anyone here who thinks it is illogical or inconsistent?

Why does the subject read so contradictory. It could have been written in a less confusing way. I think you might mean "you do not personally believe in gods, but there remains the possibility a god could exist.

That is not what I meant at all...and the "confusing way" was the purpose of the title. I explain that...I think on page 1 of the thread.

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@Frank Apisa,

Your statement is somewhat confusing, what do you mean Frank Apisa..
Are you implying that there are no gods as supreme chief in the existing religions but there must be a God in the universe ?
If you mean the second part of the sentence, you have to specify why there should be a God, unless you identify as God the universe's evolution I shall not debate you but, in this case god is not an entity but the evolution in itself.
I don't know why we are in this universe, I don't know why we do exist but if you find satisfaction in considering the above with an entity, go head.
Now and before closing, try to picture the position of hearth inside the Milky Way and then the Milky Way in relation to the universe and at this point you would see the futility in considering God's existence

1 Reply

@Galli,

Galli wrote:

Your statement is somewhat confusing, what do you mean Frank Apisa..
Are you implying that there are no gods as supreme chief in the existing religions but there must be a God in the universe ?
If you mean the second part of the sentence, you have to specify why there should be a God, unless you identify as God the universe's evolution I shall not debate you but, in this case god is not an entity but the evolution in itself.
I don't know why we are in this universe, I don't know why we do exist but if you find satisfaction in considering the above with an entity, go head.
Now and before closing, try to picture the position of hearth inside the Milky Way and then the Milky Way in relation to the universe and at this point you would see the futility in considering God's existence

My position is quite clearly stated.

I do not "believe" any gods exist. (Some people "believe" at least one god exists. I am not one of them.)

I also do not "believe" there are no gods. (Some people "believe" there are no gods. I am not one of them either.)

So...what is your question.

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@Frank Apisa,

How can anyone make an assertion if they don't exist? It is therefore illogical.

1 Reply

@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

How can anyone make an assertion if they don't exist? It is therefore illogical.

You're misreading Frank's assertion. Frank is not saying that Frank does not exist.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

How do you know if you don’t exist? Do you exist?

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@Jasper10,

As Descartes says.

Dieu et mon droit, la plume de ma tante.

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I see this thread has been resurrected. I have very few people on IGNORE, but two of them are posting here. I am going to take those people off of IGNORE for now. Just in case there are questions anyone wants to ask.

My intentions are explained several times...and the proposition, "I neither 'believe' any gods exist nor 'believe' there are no gods...IS NOT CONTRADICTORY.

If anyone wants to continue discussion on this topic, I am here to do so.

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@Frank Apisa,

Oh **** that sucks because the rule currently all sausage named frank has to believe tht god exists. no exemptions.

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@Jasper10,

I'm fairly certain of it.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

How can there be any doubt? How do you make an assertion if you don’t exist?

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@Jasper10,

I would suggest that some people have an issue with natures full logic table when it comes to the question of whether they exist or not.

1.I don’t exist…..I don’t exist.
2.I don’t exist….I do exist.
3.I do exist…..I don’t exist.
4.I do exist…I do exist.

I would suggest that they don’t have an issue with items 1 to 3.

Item 4 however, they wrestle with.

2 Replies

I do not believe gods exist…but I do not believe there are no gods.

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