"Austerity" now a dirty word in Europe

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

However, I suspect it will be very difficult in the current political situation for the other members to expell Greece from the EU altogether - at least in the near term.

I'd thought so, too. HAD thought so, since the Austrian finance minister, Maria Fekter, said in Brussels a couple of minutes ago, that it is impossible to expulse a member from the Euro-Zone (that's what I always had thought) but it would be possible that Greece leaves the EU (I'm not sure, if she meant 'voluntarily' or 'by force').

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

I hsadn't thought of that Walter, but I suspect you're right.

As we can all see in our local situations, it's hard enough for a single country to sort out its conflicting political & economic priorities in the current world-wide economic situation. Very likely it's far more difficult in the far more complex governance of the EU. Individual nations, when they get into financial trouble after years of ignoring EU rules and even lying about their financial situations, are quick to demand unity and solidarity from their partners. The public in every nation, fearful of their economic furtures, and softened by years of unsustainable government guarantees and support, resists dealing rtesponsibly with the situation.

I have even reassessed my opinion of former German Chanceller Schroeder. It was under his government that Germany cut back on some of its social economic programs and significantly loosened the constraints on a then over regulated labor market. Those actions have served Germany very well in the ensuing years

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

It seems, some newspapers have correspondents with knowledge about what they write

Quote:

But it would be a mistake to assume that in backing the Social Democrats, voters in Germany’s most populous state are calling for less austerity in Europe. Above all, this was a local election won on local issues, which restored the left to its traditional position as the leading party.

Source: FT
Landtag election of 20 April 1947

Just to show the history of our state's parliament, have a look here: http://www.geschichte.nrw.de/artikel.php?artikel%5Bid%5D=889&lkz=en&WYSESSID=q

We are back to from where we come Very Happy

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

A comment by Cyclo is now "a fact."

Remarkable.

If I'm commenting on something that is factually true, than yes, it is. It's not true because I said it, it's true because that's what's actually happening.

Not really all that remarkable. But deadly to the case that you and other economic know-nothings have been making.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

"Common sense is nonsense because liberal economics have found a way to give everyone everything they want without actual cost! All hail Keyne and Krugman!"

There is a cost - we have to pay taxes. I have consistently supported raising taxes on ALL Americans from their current historically low levels, in order to get our fiscal house in order.

Not really remarkable, but once again, deadly to the case you are making.

Cycloptichorn

3 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Well, it's always easier to argue against what you wish your opponents were saying.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

"Common sense is nonsense because liberal economics have found a way to give everyone everything they want without actual cost! All hail Keyne and Krugman!"

There is a cost - we have to pay taxes. I have consistently supported raising taxes on ALL Americans from their current historically low levels, in order to get our fiscal house in order.

Not really remarkable, but once again, deadly to the case you are making.

Cycloptichorn

Do you have a speech writer? ("I have consistently supported...")

1 Reply

@Foofie,

I'm my own speech writer, thanks very much.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Hollande's Plane gets hit by lightning on his way to Germany - Forced to turn back

1 Reply

@Irishk,

He just arrived in Berlin with his standby-plane, an hour later than originally scheduled. (Okay, he started already an hour later than planned with his first plane Wink

)

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Talks between Merkel and Hollande started: "It's the most eagerly awaited dinner date on the international stage for some time, where the debate over growth versus austerity is expected to take centre-stage." writes The Guardian.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
... since they do not meet the requirements to stay in the EU.

Those are ... ?

Well, those are the same as they needed to meet before entering the EU (which they actually did not meet as Izzy said already)...
Inflation cannot be higher than 1.5 %; the deficit cannot exceed 3 % of the GDP; gross government debt cannot exceed 60 or 70 %, and interest rates cannot be higher than 6 % I believe....

I am sure you know it much better!

2 Replies

@CalamityJane,

Those were the conditions they had to meet before entering the Eurozone, not the EU.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
... since they do not meet the requirements to stay in the EU.

Those are ... ?

Well, those are the same as they needed to meet before entering the EU (which they actually did not meet as Izzy said already)...
Inflation cannot be higher than 1.5 %; the deficit cannot exceed 3 % of the GDP; gross government debt cannot exceed 60 or 70 %, and interest rates cannot be higher than 6 % I believe....

I am sure you know it much better!

Yes, BEFORE.
But now (year of EU entry: 1981) they ARE a member.
A country can indeed leave the EU - Greenland left (the EC) in 1983.
However, a country can't be expelled from the EU.
(Though it is possible for certain of a country’s rights in the EU, including voting rights in the Council, to be suspended. This can happen if a Member State has seriously and consistently violated the principles on which the EU is based: freedom, democracy, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms and the principle of the rule of law, which means that the EU’s rules are applied and their observance is ensured.) [Source: Danish EU-website.]

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

"Common sense is nonsense because liberal economics have found a way to give everyone everything they want without actual cost! All hail Keyne and Krugman!"

There is a cost - we have to pay taxes. I have consistently supported raising taxes on ALL Americans from their current historically low levels, in order to get our fiscal house in order.

Not really remarkable, but once again, deadly to the case you are making.

Cycloptichorn

Do you then disagree with our President that it is only "fair" that we raise taxes only on those making over $250,000 ? Would you also raise the tax rates on lower income brackets?

Our esteemed governor is now suggesting a 3% rise in the marginal state income tax rate on Californians reporting over $250,000/year income. Do you suppose the cumulative effect of this and the proposed Federal tax hikes on those affected will have no adverse economic effects on others? Do you believe this alone will "put our fiscal house in order"??

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

"Common sense is nonsense because liberal economics have found a way to give everyone everything they want without actual cost! All hail Keyne and Krugman!"

There is a cost - we have to pay taxes. I have consistently supported raising taxes on ALL Americans from their current historically low levels, in order to get our fiscal house in order.

Not really remarkable, but once again, deadly to the case you are making.

Cycloptichorn

Do you then disagree with our President that it is only "fair" that we raise taxes only on those making over $250,000 ? Would you also raise the tax rates on lower income brackets?

Yes, yes, a million times yes! How many times must I repeat myself? ALL TAX BRACKETS MUST RISE if we are to address our financial problems in any sort of reasonable fashion.

The simplest method of doing so would be to let the Bush tax cuts expire for all tax brackets. This alone takes care of 75% of our deficit over the next few years - and that's accounting for some loss in revenue due to dynamic scoring.

Quote:

Our esteemed governor is now suggesting a 3% rise in the marginal state income tax rate on Californians reporting over $250,000/year income. Do you suppose the cumulative effect of this and the proposed Federal tax hikes on those affected will have no adverse economic effects on others? Do you believe this alone will "put our fiscal house in order"??

While I support Brown's move, it's not enough - taxes would need to go up on everyone in order to 'get our house in order.' I do note that Brown has proposed spending cuts in all the areas that Dems typically want to defend, so it's not like the guy isn't trying to compromise.

Re: the 'adverse effects,' how do you think people got by in the past, when taxes really were at the rates that I propose putting them at? I mean, jeez. You act like a small increase is the equivalent to Armageddon, as if our country didn't survive JUST FINE for decades with marginal tax rates far higher than our current ones. I give not a fig for the supposed adverse economic effects; I believe they are highly exaggerated by squirrels trying to protect their hoard of nuts.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Notice Walter I wrote conservative with a lower case "c."

I haven idea whether the business folk I met with are Conservatives, Liberals, or Laborites. They were surprisingly liberal, as compared to their counterparts in the US.

Pardon me Walter if I don't afford you the title of "Grand High Expert on All Things European"

You are one voice and so was the Brit I was drinking with. His colleagues, who agreed with him, were individual voices, and British one's at that, too.

This is precisely why I enjoy my discussions with Europeans who don't participate in this forum.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I give not a fig for the supposed adverse economic effects; I believe they are highly exaggerated by squirrels trying to protect their hoard of nuts.

Hehehehehe . . .

A felicitous turn of phrase . . . i got a kick out of that . . .

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Irks you that you might not be relied upon as the Royal Voice?

We weren't talking about nationalistic rallies, we were talking about flying the Union Jack on your residence, store or public building.

I've no doubt that your circle of friends and associates see the flying of your nation's flag as an shitty expression of facism, but then hopefully you can appreciate that your circle doesn't encompass all of the Isles.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

you know what happens when you walk on his grass, izzy.

you whippersnapper you...

0 Replies

"Austerity" now a dirty word in Europe

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know