22
   

"Austerity" now a dirty word in Europe

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 09:16 am
@Lustig Andrei,
It does in WalMart. Razz
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 10:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
When Facebook went public, all their employees became instant millionaires.


And what a highly productive industry that is, CI. Didn't I hear that there were once lots of millionaires in Silicon Valley? Didn't that bubble burst too?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 10:12 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Europe going belly up AND spreading propaganda.


Gee, Lash, pointing fingers at others is just so not like you, not like Americans in general.

Whatever is happening?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 10:21 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
And more insidiously, perhaps:

"Our dire straits aren't the fault of true Greeks, it's the immigrants and Jews who have taken us down!"

If I were an immigrant or Jew living in Greece, I would begin to map out an escape route.


People are good at finding boogeymen, aren't they, Finn? What would you do if you were an Iraqi, an Afghan, a Nicaraguan, a Vietnamese, a Laotian, a Cambodian, an Indonesian, a Guatemalan, a Chilean, an Iranian, a Panamanian, a Grenadian, a Brazilian, a Filipino, a any of the myriad other peoples who have had no escape route from the rapacious predations of the USA?

This is not a rhetorical question, Finn. It's a real one, one that you should address.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 04:37 pm
@JTT,
Sorry. I realize you believe you have the market cornered on finger pointing. Confused
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 05:30 pm
@Lash,
Come off it, Lash. Americans are world leaders in finger pointing. It's all part of the big propaganda system, Keep everyone off guard so no one looks at our dismal record.

Hey look, there's another boogeyman. Let's get him before he hurts someone, well us anyway. No one will notice that we had to kill 2 or 3 million people to get the bad guy that we created.

------------------------------------

Look over there.

Where?

There in Central/South America, a democratically elected leader who wants to help his people.

****, we can't have that.

Let's make him into a boogeyman - the idiots that vote us in fall for that with alarming regularity.

What about the innocents who'll die?

Who gives a ****! Think of the money we'll make.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 06:01 pm
@izzythepush,
What is it that I am talking about that really translates to killing the poor?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 06:07 pm
@JTT,
Whatever they did when they faced the rapcious predation of other far-flung foreign powers, neighboring countries, home grown tyrants and hateful fellow citizens.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 06:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
To be clear, you are saying that all these people, from all these countries that I have mentioned and all the others that have suffered predation at the hands of the USA have a perfect right to retaliate against the USA.

Quote:
Whatever they did when they faced the rapcious predation of other far-flung foreign powers, neighboring countries, home grown tyrants and hateful fellow citizens.


That means that the Vietnamese were completely within their rights when they sought to fight against the rapacious predations of the US.

That means that the Nicaraguans were completely within their rights when they sought to fight against the rapacious predations of the US.

That means that the Filipinos were completely within their rights when they sought to fight against the rapacious predations of the US.

That means that the Guatemalans were completely within their rights when they sought to fight against the rapacious predations of the US.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 08:09 pm
@JTT,
Absolutely
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 08:14 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Cagey, aren't you, Finn? Voluble Finn clams up.

The truth seems to do that to folks like you.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 08:20 pm
@JTT,
Clams up?

You've just proven that it's damned if you do and damned if you don't with you.

I gave you the answer you were hoping for but never expected and you have to find fault with it.

This really is proof that you are all hat and no cattle, as they say here in Texas.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 08:35 pm
Europe’s grim choices

By Robert J. Samuelson

Quote:
Broadly speaking, the 17-member euro zone faces two choices.

One is to defend the euro at all costs. The immediate consequences for Greece — or other countries — of leaving the euro would be dire. Some companies, unable to repay euro-denominated debts, would go bankrupt. Inflation would shoot up. Banks might suffer large withdrawals. Worse, if Greece dropped the euro, it might trigger a chain reaction. Depositors in Spain, Italy or Ireland might stage runs on their banks, trying to withdraw euros before they were replaced by less valuable national currencies.

Preserving the single currency could cost trillions of euros, says Douglas Elliott of the Brookings Institution. The ECB might have to guarantee bank deposits or provide vast advances to banks to offset withdrawals. Softening today’s austerity would require more borrowing. Who would lend? The ECB? Historically, excessive lending by central banks risks high inflation, though many economists discount that now. What about “eurobonds” — bonds issued for individual nations but backed by all? This would make Germany, with its strong credit rating, the ultimate guarantor. Naturally, the Germans resist.

The other possibility is to admit that defending the euro is self-defeating, argues economist Desmond Lachman of the American Enterprise Institute. Imposing big spending cuts and tax increases on economies in recession worsens the recessions. Spain is supposed to cut its deficit by more than 3 percent of its economy in 2012, even though retail sales are down 11 percent from year-earlier levels. Budget targets won’t be met, he says. The only hope for these countries is to jettison the euro and benefit from a cheaper currency.

Aside from the initial economic costs, the blow to Europe’s political cohesion would be enormous. Europeans would debate: Who killed the euro? Germany would be a big loser.

Europe is a fifth of the world economy. Its multinational firms span the globe. What happens in Europe does not stay in Europe but affects markets and confidence everywhere. Europe’s slackening export demand already hurts other economies. The great lesson here is that bad ideas, once embraced, become entrenched. The euro was a monstrously bad idea from which there is no easy escape.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/europes-grim-choices/2012/06/03/gJQA17q7BV_story.html?hpid=z2

Samuelson has built in a wildly optimistic assumption here I see, namely that the European political leaders both can and will eventually decide. Much more likely is that the markets will decide, that up till the end the politicians will remain dishonest and reactionary.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 08:54 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You've just proven that it's damned if you do and damned if you don't with you.


Well, at least you got the right pronoun, Finn.

Quote:
I gave you the answer you were hoping for but never expected and you have to find fault with it.

This really is proof that you are all hat and no cattle, as they say here in Texas.


Finn, you have way more words here, making excuses for yourself, than you did in your "reply". And you talk about "all hat and no cattle".

You haven't exhibited any honesty. You haven't addressed anything. Normally, you can't shut up.

Surely, this isn't what you meant by "Check again".



Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 08:56 pm
@JTT,
You're a fraud, plain and simple.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 09:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawk, I'm in agreement with you to a point; the markets work in cycles, and the current bear market is the result of consumer confidence dropping to new lows; not because the economies of many countries are working okay. Our economy is made up of many different goods and services that will remain in high demand; that alone speaks to the strength of our economy. The most tell-tale signs are the uptick in home buying that impacts all the home builders suppliers including appliance makers. Car sales are also showing good increases over last year.

Most investors use emotion rather than common sense to sell stocks at the worst time - to exchange them for low paying bonds and gold that produces nothing.

Foreign investors are buying up US equities, because it's the safest investment in today's marketplace.

Investment in stocks means - keeping it for the long term; buy low and sell high. People use emotion, and sell thinking they're going to loose everything. They helped themselves to meet that opposite goal by selling low.

The stock market will increase this summer; just watch!

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 09:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
The crimes of the U.S. throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented but Finn won't talk about them, and I'm a fraud?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 09:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The stock market will increase this summer; just watch!


What has that to do with my assertion that that the need to sell debt combined the incompetence of European political leaders will likely result in the markets dictating the terms of the European economic organization??
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 09:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
You're not making much sense. Please rewrite in legible English.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2012 09:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
kindly read Soros's comments at the Festival of Economics in Trento, Italy. Get back to me if you are still confused.
0 Replies
 
 

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