Why does the Universe exist?

@JLNobody,

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The questions, "why does the universe exist?" and "Why is there something rather than nothing?" are not meaningless,

Of course not

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But they are not scientifically meaningful;

Intuitionally meaningful

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there is no way to investigate them.

Very dualistic remark. Because nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else, in a meaningful sense we surely can investigate within whatever restrictions imposed by the philosophical mode

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leads me to conclude that it is a dead end

Still some of us may see it as wide open. For instance the idea that things are the way they are because any other way might entail contradictions is not so dead-end as you might suppose. A typical example is some of the apparent absurdities in Einstein, none of which can be denied without calling into question the others. This principle of interdependence when applied to constants of the Universe as a whole suggests a way of looking at it which might eventually lead to The Ultimate Answer

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there is no way to investigate them.Very dualistic remark.

bizzare comment really

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Because nothing is entirely anything

how does nothing now become " anything " ?

explain further

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@north,

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Because nothing is entirely anything

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how does nothing now become " anything " ?

Merely a semantic issue. You suppose somehow I equate “nothing” and “anything” whereas by “nothing” I mean no object nor proposition and by “anything” a certain absolute quality

Thus no political system is entirely satisfactory; or given

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there is no way to investigate them,

There is always a way to investigate anything

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@dalehileman,

Quote: Because nothing is entirely anything

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how does nothing now become " anything " ?

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Merely a semantic issue.

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You suppose somehow I equate “nothing” and “anything” whereas by “nothing” I mean no object nor proposition and by “anything” a certain absolute quality

good

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Thus no political system is entirely satisfactory; or given

what is this ?

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there is no way to investigate them,

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There is always a way to investigate anything

but not nothing

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@north,

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Thus no political system is entirely satisfactory; or given

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what is this ?

…given the Quote:
that there is no way to investigate them

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There is always a way to investigate anything

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but not nothing

Then do you mean we shouldn’t discuss the idea of nothingness

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

Quote: Thus no political system is entirely satisfactory; or given
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what is this ?
…given the Quote: that there is no way to investigate them Quote: There is always a way to investigate anything

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but not nothing

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Then do you mean we shouldn’t discuss the idea of nothingness

yes

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@north,

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Then do you mean we shouldn’t discuss the idea of nothingness

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yes

Okay

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"Nothing" is a term that only has meaning in relation to other terms. It requires a context to make sense, it is not an object or phenomenon in itself.
You open a drawer and see that it's empty. It's not really empty. It's full of air, but it doesn't hold things that one would expect a drawer to hold, so it is empty... there is nothing in the drawer. But if air was what you were looking for, there would not be nothing in the drawer.

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@Cyracuz,

Very rigorous response. Smile

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@Ding an Sich,

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then there must exist one thing no matter what,

Well Ding I’m not so sure though it might reduce to a matter of semantics. One can easily ask, “Why should there be anything,” positing if not envisioning a state of nothingness

Hello test

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There is no reason why the universe exist as it does

Don’t be too sure about that; it’s perfectly reasonable to presume it will eventually be shown that “nothingness” entails paradox and contradiction, requiring there to be something and that something is the way it is because it can’t be any other way without introducing more of those disparities and inconsistencies

Your reason might conceivably be better than mine but you might have to reword it in more nearly everyday language for comprehension by the Average Clod (me)

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@dalehileman,

Ding an Sich said that "There is no reason why the universe exist[s] as it does." Is he talking about a human-like reason (or at least one that we can relate to) or a synonym for "purpose" or "plan"?

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@JLNobody,

[/quote]Good question JL. His reference to a “necessary being” might refer to some sort of supernatural reasoning but I’m not much up with philojarg

Back to page 1, JL, Ding says

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Answer to question 1:
Everything is necessarily contingent (principle of unreason). If this is the case, then there must exist one thing no matter what, albeit a contingent thing. Hence, you cannot have nothing.

Answer to question 2:
There is no reason why the universe exist as it does; this is drawn from the principle of unreason, which runs contrary to the principle of sufficient reason, wherein one attempts to proceed from the totality of the world (or universe) to a necessary being.

As for q1, I’m not sure what he means. I for one can easily entertain the concept of nothingness but maybe that isn’t what he means

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@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

Ding an Sich said that "There is no reason why the universe exist[s] as it does." Is he talking about a human-like reason (or at least one that we can relate to) or a synonym for "purpose" or "plan"?

Both. To ascribe any sort of teleological function to the things themselves is nonsense.

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

Good question JL. His reference to a “necessary being” might refer to some sort of supernatural reasoning but I’m not much up with philojarg

Back to page 1, JL, Ding says

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Answer to question 1:
Everything is necessarily contingent (principle of unreason). If this is the case, then there must exist one thing no matter what, albeit a contingent thing. Hence, you cannot have nothing.

Answer to question 2:
There is no reason why the universe exist as it does; this is drawn from the principle of unreason, which runs contrary to the principle of sufficient reason, wherein one attempts to proceed from the totality of the world (or universe) to a necessary being.

As for q1, I’m not sure what he means. I for one can easily entertain the concept of nothingness but maybe that isn’t what he means

You can entertain the concept of nothingness, but you cannot entertain there being nothing whatsoever. There is a sea of difference between the two.

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@Ding an Sich,

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you cannot entertain there being nothing whatsoever

Ding forgive me but why not

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@dalehileman,

In order to entertain the hypothetical notion of nothing existing you would necessarily exist to entertain the notion.

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@JLNobody,

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In order to entertain the hypothetical notion of nothing existing you would necessarily exist to entertain the notion.

Forgive me JL but there’s some kind of semantic block between us. I can easily entertain the idea of nothingness. For instance I ask, “Why does there have to be anything at all,” meaning that nothingness seems much more logical than what we’ve got now. Just because I exist I don’t see why that should mean I can’t conceive of the condition though of course I can’t picture it

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@dalehileman,

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In order to entertain the hypothetical notion of nothing existing you would necessarily exist to entertain the notion.

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Forgive me JL but there’s some kind of semantic block between us. I can easily entertain the idea of nothingness. For instance I ask, “Why does there have to be anything at all,” meaning that nothingness seems much more logical than what we’ve got now.

how is nothingness more logical ?

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@JLNobody,

I'm just asking how can there be nothing if it takes something to declare it so?

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@north,

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how is nothingness more logical ?

Intuitively, North; requires no explanation of creation, cause, beginning, end, purpose, design, motive; its simple, straightforward; nothingness

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I'm just asking how can there be nothing if it takes something to declare it so?

If there were nothing there would be no need for declaration. Semantic issue

I suppose if the Universe is finite you could say that outside it there’s nothingness, not even space, but that’s not quite right because there simply isn’t an outside

However there’s a perfectly serious “scientific" theory that the Big Bang popped out of nothingness but I don’t like it. To skirt paradox and contradiction I propose sequential Big-Bang—Big Crunch separated by a moment of nothingness but having a duration of zero

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Why does the Universe exist?

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