Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

There is however a high likelihood that 12 citizens are going to be more predisposed to using the "SAFETY!" argument to justify confronting young black men who look like hoodlums. This case does not happen in a vacuum, there is a very good reason why extremely high numbers of young black men currently have as their address a prison, and any 12 citizens are going to consider this point as they ponder the states claims.

What's your point? That racial profiling is justified--because so many young black men are in prison? There is a lack of logic in that line of reasoning.

What makes a young black man "look like a hoodlum"?

Zimmerman thought Martin seemed suspicious--but he described Martin as doing nothing more than looking at the houses around him. Read the transcript of his 911 call.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
Martin wasn't doing anything to endanger anyone, or endanger their property, when Zimmerman made the 911 call--he simply seemed "suspicious" to Zimmerman, and we don't know for certain whether the color of Martin's skin was what made him seem suspicious to Zimmerman, and how that affected Zimmerman's mind-set, and we may never really know the answer to that question. But we do know that, for some reason, Zimmerman clearly misinterpreted the urgency of the situation, he misinterpreted the urgency of needing to follow Martin to prevent him from doing something, like commit a burglary, and we know this because he was unwilling to wait for the police to show up and do their job--even though Martin wasn't actually threatening or menacing anyone, including him. All Martin was doing before that 911 call was made was wandering around a street looking at the houses.

I don't know whether racial profiling played a part in Zimmerman's perception and interpretation of Martin's behavior, but I do feel that Zimmerman's impulsivity--his inability to wait for the police--is what triggered a tragedy. And that impulsiveness was related to his anger about what he thought Martin was up to. His anger resulted in poor impulse control. And, yesterday, at the bond hearing, the state brought up two previous incidents where Zimmerman displayed poor impulse control regarding his anger--one involving a law enforcement officer and the other involving domestic violence--and Zimmerman had been ordered to attend anger management in the former case.

So, he does have some past legal history of failing to adequately control his impulses when he becomes angry. And it might well have been that poor impulse control, rather than racial malice, that caused Zimmerman to provoke an aggressive or confrontational response from Martin. That explanation wouldn't alter whether or not Zimmerman was justified in using deadly force to defend himself, but, for me, it would more adequately explain why the situation had escalated to that point--because Zimmerman couldn't control himself long enough for the police to show up. In hindsight, that was reckless of him, but I'm not sure that makes him guilty of manslaughter, let alone second degree murder, because we still don't know who became violent or aggressive first when the final confrontation took place.

I think the alleged photos of Zimmerman's bloody head, by themselves, don't prove he was being severely injured enough to fear for his life, or to absolve him of being the initial aggressor--Martin might have feared for his own life in response to Zimmerman's behavior, and possibly the sight of his gun, and he might have been acting in self defense.
And, if Zimmerman was severely injured, why didn't the police take him to an ER for medical evaluation? The man claimed his head had been banged on concrete, so why didn't the police take him for medical care to rule out a fractured skull, or internal bleeding--shouldn't they have done that if they felt he was seriously injured? Was an ambulance even summoned for Zimmerman? Was he evaluated by EMT's at the scene ? If so, where is their report describing the injuries they noted?

There are still too many missing parts to this story to draw any clear conclusion about what took place immediately before the shooting. That's why this case is where it belongs right now--in court. It should have been in court all along--Zimmerman should have been arrested the night of the shooting since the victim was unarmed. His claim of self defense should not have been taken at face value--it should have been established in court with some supporting evidence. And it remains to be seen whether he'll be able to do that now.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Its perfectly all right.

I wish that it were in the Constitution
that when someone becomes the victim of crime
(in this case a violent criminal assault by T. Martin
upon the happless Zimmy) that government is duty bound
to be supportive of the victim, not the bad guy.
( Holders of public office who disobay that imperative
shud lose their pensions and be subject to incarceration. )
The facts were probed by the police,
who were satisfied that it was OK.
If not, then (in a situation of self defense)
let it proceed by inquest in which government shall bear
all financial expenses, including paying defendant 's legal fee expenses.
If the inquest finds reason to believe that defendant
committed a crime, then let it proceed to trial.

I am biased in favor of the GOOD GUYS and I disfavor the bad guys.

David

The problem David is you can't tell who the bad guy is. If a person accidentally walks into the wrong house and then the homeowner attacks them is that person within their rights to kill the homeowner in defense of their life? If the homeowner is dead, do you believe the person that claims to have unknowingly entered the wrong house and was attacked?

The problem with your argument David is that everyone can claim self defense and the state would have to believe everyone without evidence to the contrary. A rather silly exercise, don't you think?

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@parados,

Quote:

A rather silly exercise, don't you think?

What's really silly is that this has to be explained to a guy who suggests that he was a lawyer. More likely a NY city sanitation engineer.

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@firefly,

Quote:

What's your point? That racial profiling is justified--because so many young black men are in prison?

That is a point that I made about a week ago, but here I was making the point that the state likely has misjudged where the allegiance of the jury will lie.

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@parados,

It's entirely possible that OmSigDavid doesn't care if Zimmerman is actually guilty of wrongdoing.

It matters to David that Zimmerman is acquitted, because he wants the Stand Your Ground law not to be diluted.

1 Reply

Based on the evidence so far made public, no I do not think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder.
There are to many questions concerning the matter, and to much reasonable doubt.
The evidence shows (from video taken at the PD) that Zimmerman was injured, so its possible he was defending himself.

But, not knowing all of the facts in the case, and lets be honest and admit that none of us know all the facts, I dont think he will be convicted of murder, but I do think its possible that a manslaughter conviction is possible.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

It's entirely possible that OmSigDavid doesn't care
if Zimmerman is actually guilty of wrongdoing.

It matters to David that Zimmerman is acquitted,
because he wants the Stand Your Ground law not to be diluted.

In my opinion, this incident may very well help
in the further proliferation of Stand Your Ground laws thru out the rest of America,
when people get to thinking about them and the protection that thay afford
for innocent people who fall victim to criminal violence, as Zimmy did.
Those people need to be SECURE in the knowledge of immunity from civil and criminal litigation.

If not, then successful defense of your life and property
can result in getting legally raped n sodomized by government WORSE
than what the criminal originally had in mind.
The governments that we created and that we nourish with our taxes
shud not go into partnership with criminally violent predators.
We need to make sure, as well as possible,
that the victims, like Mr. Z, come out on top.

Imagine that one of the liberals in this forum,
who is spewing hate toward Zimmy,
were to be innocuously walking home
when set upon by a predatory criminal.
A terrible fight ensues. The innocent
member of A2K falls to the ground,
ignobly beaten down. In desperation,
he grabs a rock (an unregistered rock)
and smacks the robber with it, inflicting death.

The robber's survivors sue
in tort alleging "wrongful death".

A D.A. wishes to get more press,
in hope of improving his name recognition,
in support of his political ambitions,
so he prosecutes and persecutes the A2K member,
who is moven to hire lawyers for both
the civil and the criminal cases.

That can cost him a lot of money.
His life savings coud be wiped out, even if he WINS both cases.
It 'd very common for his legal counsel to advise settlement; very possible.
That can cost a lot of money.
He coud be set back to his high school financial status,
perhaps as his working years are approaching the end of middle age.
The lawyers' fees by themselves coud wipe out a lifetime
of financially productive effort.

In such an event,
the hate spewing A2K member, who bears ill will toward Zimmy,
might wish for sufficient legal protection in the law for himself & his heirs.

I care about living in an environment of LEGAL SAFETY
( that means safety from government )
a lot more than I care about the specific Trayvon incident.

David

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

With Dershowitz's statement on the record and other legal experts calling this a "career ender" for the prosecutor, I don't see how this even gets to a jury.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Which "other legal experts" ?

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@OmSigDAVID,

The thing I'm seeing quoted in most places is this:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/walking-papers-the-incredibly-thin-speculative-zimmerman-affidavit/?singlepage=true

Quote:

...Last week, Florida prosecutor Angela Corey stunned many within the legal establishment when she announced her office was filing a second-degree murder charge against George Zimmerman. The four-page affidavit of probable cause filed by Corey’s office shocked legal experts, ranging from liberal Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz and liberal law blogger Jeralyn Merritt to conservative former prosecutor Andrew McCarthy and talk show host Mark Levin, among others....

Levin is in fact a legal expert.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

I see what u mean.

Zimmy may do well with litigation for false arrest and false imprisonment
in addition to his books and movie.

The attention to this case may have a good effect
in helping to proliferate these very valuable, protective statutes thru out America.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Ever heard the name Ralph Kerr? That would be another case of somebody trying to kill people with more firepower than he had.....

1 Reply

http://pjmedia.com/blog/walking-papers-the-incredibly-thin-speculative-zimmerman-affidavit/?singlepage=true

Quote:

....There is nothing in this affidavit nor among the publicly known facts about the case — nor even among the allegations from the victim’s family or their attorneys — that comes even remotely close to reaching the “depraved mind” standard. At most, the prosecutor would face making a difficult manslaughter case, and even then would risk having the lesser charge thrown out for insufficient evidence.

I am comfortable with saying that Corey’s multiple references to “justice for Trayon” during her press conference combined with this breathtaking affidavit strongly suggest a political motivation.

I live and work in central North Carolina, just miles away from where an overzealous, politically minded prosecutor named Mike Nifong attempted to railroad athletes from the Duke University lacrosse team in a similarly racially charged environment just a half-decade ago.

Nifong was disbarred and found guilty of criminal contempt for his actions. Angela Corey’s affidavit against George Zimmerman looks to be treading dangerously close to that same path.....

Mike Nifong at his new occupation:

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSImmYhgKLVNiN0R3cu1O3N4tKHAcG43U7HfwflsQKtdKYlkexMFA

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Having Googled him,
I find that he was a captain in the English Royal Navy
killed on board the Hood, in its unsuccessful fight with the Bismark.

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@gungasnake,

Nifong was worse than a disgrace.
He got what he deserved.

Thank u for pointing that out.

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http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/eric-holder-warned-arrest-black-panthers/

Quote:

A high-profile minister and commentator for Fox News, CNN and MSNBC who has been described as the “antidote to Jesse Jackson” is calling today for more arrests in the Trayvon Martin case in Florida. But the ones who should be in handcuffs, according to Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, are members of the New Black Panther Party.

Peterson, founder of the Brotherhood Organization of A New Destiny, as well as the affiliated BOND Action, has written to Attorney General Eric Holder asking for the arrests.

Quote:
“The New Black Panther Party has been emboldened by the Justice Department’s refusal to prosecute them for past and current crimes,” he said. “They must be stopped now before their incitement to violence and bloodshed becomes a tragic reality in Florida and across this nation. Swift and aggressive action by your office would show that the DOJ is still committed to protecting the civil rights of all Americans, not just blacks, and that you’re seeking justice for all parties involved in this unfortunate case. I hope that you’ll do the right thing. The nation is watching.”

Peterson cited the “$10,000 bounty” that the party placed on the life of George Zimmerman, who has been arrested in the death of Trayvon Martin. The party also has “distributed flyers called for his capture ‘dead or alive....’”

long article, worth reading.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

the world would be a better place if folks like jesse (j,v &p) and all other commentators of every political stripe would just disappear

and as for the black panthers, lots of white weirdos calling for race wars too, talk, as they say is cheap, threatening folks is fine in my book, actions are not

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@djjd62,

Right now I don't think that Zimmerman will be convicted of murder.

By the way...how tall is this guy? On TV he looks real short.

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@djjd62,

Some see a race war in America as inevitable:

http://fredoneverything.net/Zimmerman.shtml

I don't buy that. I believe that 95% of the problems blacks experience living in the US would evaporate within two years of the demoKKKrat party being outlawed and banned, or even within two or three years of a meaningful set of political reforms which would allow some third party to rise up and supplant it.

The most major such reform would be runoff elections or instant runoff elections for all public offices.

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@OmSigDAVID,

The opposite is probably true David. Wisconsin may repeal their law after an incident in which a underage drinker hiding from police on a 3 season porch was shot by the homeowner.

http://www.startribune.com/local/148402995.html

0 Replies

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

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