Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

@snood,

It was probably pointless for me to go through it yet again, snood, but the mindless defense of Zimmerman, coupled with the gratuitous character assassination of an innocent kid, is really hard to take.

2 Replies

@firefly,

If only the evidence supported your emotional outburst. None of the facts support your case, in fact most of the facts are in Zimmerman's favor. It has already been proven that he didn't profile Martin. The only mention of race during his 911 calls was when the dispatcher asked him the persons race. You can't even get the beginning of the facts straight. How can you explain the rest of them, when you get it wrong from the start. Your whole argument is emotional against Zimmerman with no supporting facts.

1 Reply

@firefly,

You realize that from the beginning it was character assassination on Zimmerman. He was a racist first remember? People only got involved when the media said a white man killed a black kid. Right from the first national report it was all wrong. You continue the shame when you do not address the facts as they are.

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@Baldimo,

Quote:

It has already been proven that he didn't profile Martin.

Not true--at all.

The only "suspicious" characters Zimmerman ever called the police about were all black males.

The fact he didn't mention race to the 911 operator, until he was asked about it, doesn't tell you what was going on in Zimmerman's mind that caused him to notice and react to Martin in the first place. The kid wasn't doing anything except talking on his cell phone and trying to dodge the rain. He was on his way back home from the store. And the only reason Zimmerman reacted to him was because he was young and black--that set off alarm bells in Zimmerman's mind about "suspicious" criminal activity.

You just may be naive about the way racial profiling affects someone's thinking and perception.

There is nothing emotional about the scenario I presented. I am taking more of the facts into account than you are--including the facts about Zimmerman's past history of run-ins with the law, his problems with impulse control, his court-ordered anger management classes, and the psychiatric medication he was prescribed at the time of the shooting. All of that helps to explain why he couldn't wait for the police to show up, as well as his impaired judgment--and it helps to form the basis for the second degree murder charge which rests on his state of mind.

Why would you even doubt that Zimmerman's behavior frightened Martin, or that Martin was trying to get away from him? Did you even read, or listen to, the statement given to the police by the girl Martin was talking to on the phone at the time? Why do you think Martin said to Zimmerman, "Get off me, get off me"? Don't you wonder about what Zimmerman was doing to him? Doesn't that suggest Martin was trying to defend himself from Zimmerman?

Besides Zimmerman's injuries, which tell you nothing about who provoked or initiated the fatal encounter, what other evidence are you taking into account?

Martin had no reason to attack Zimmerman. He went out to a store and was on his way back home. The "suspicions" were all in Zimmerman's mind--Martin wasn't doing anything wrong, and he had a legitimate reason to be in that gated community. Zimmerman misinterpreted the situation, he couldn't control himself until the police arrived, and, because of his impaired judgment, he wound up killing an innocent kid after a senseless, and needless, confrontation, during which the kid was trying to defend himself from this nut.

And, the night of the shooting, the police classified the incident as a "homicide--unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act--neglig. manslaughter". And the lead investigator recommended to the state attorney that Zimmerman be arrested and charged with manslaughter. You think the police were being "emotional" too?

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Quote:

Trayvon's killer said to make self-incriminating statements
Barbara Liston
Reuters
May 24, 2012

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - Neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman made statements to police that help establish his guilt in the second-degree murder case against him for killing unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, prosecutors said in a court filing on Thursday.

The claim came in a motion by prosecutors to keep some of Zimmerman's statements under seal pending his trial in a case that triggered civil rights protests across the United States, while sparking widespread debate over guns, self-defense laws and U.S. race relations.

"Defendant (Zimmerman) has provided law enforcement with numerous statements, some of which are contradictory, and are inconsistent with the physical evidence and statements of witnesses," the prosecutors said in their court filing.

They said the statements by Zimmerman were admissible in court and "in conjunction with other statements and evidence help to establish defendant's guilt in this case."

The court filing offered no details about the statements Zimmerman made to police or other law enforcement officials. It said Florida's public records law had no provision requiring "the disclosure of a confession" of a defendant.

"The state asserts that this provision includes an admission of a defendant that could be used against him at trial," the filing said.

Zimmerman, 28 is charged with shooting and killing the 17-year-old Martin as he walked through a gated residential community in Sanford, Florida, near Orlando, on February 26.

Police initially declined to arrest Zimmerman, citing Florida's "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law, but a special prosecutor who was subsequently appointed charged Zimmerman with second-degree murder.

Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty.

In a separate court filing on Thursday, Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara joined in the motion to keep his client's statements out of the public eye for the time being.

"There is the possibility that these statements may be subject to motions to suppress, if there is a potentially involuntary statement elicited from Mr. Zimmerman," O'Mara said.

"The release of that information would be highly prejudicial to Mr. Zimmerman's case, and again, would adversely affect the proper administration of justice," he said.

O'Mara also asked the judge to withhold what he said were thousands of emails received by the Sanford police about the case, some of which are racially charged, and Zimmerman's own text messages, emails and journal entries obtained by prosecutors as part of their evidence gathering.

Seminole County Circuit Court Judge Kenneth Lester set a June 1 hearing to consider the motions for a protective order.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shootingbre84o000-20120524,0,7659623.story

1 Reply

@firefly,

I think this will go on forever and that various people will write books.

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@firefly,

An innocent kid that by news reports Firefly that had been found shortly before with a large screw driver, a woman watch and women jewelry by the school security that he could only explained that some unname friend had given him to hold.

An innocent kid who turn and attack Zimmerman and try to pound his brain out on the sidewalk.

Zimmerman seems more then right and even if he was not right he had every right to follow the kid and have him check out by the police department.

Just because Trayvan had a black skin does not mean that anyone who does not have such a skin tone does not have the right to question the manner of his walking late at night and other behaviors that gave Zimmerman the impression he might be under the influence of drugs and checking out Zimmerman neighbors in order to do small scale crimes.

I was a Census worker and completely innocent of all intends to do crimes and yet I could see why the neighborhood gentleman would wish to question my business and my behaviors.

3 Replies

@firefly,

You do love to throw the charge of being a racist around be it Zimmerman or me without any shown foundation for that charge.

In the case of Zimmerman, he lead a campaign to get justice for a homeless black man who had been unfairly arrested by the police when the black gentleman had a conflict with a well connected white man.

In my case, I have a number of mixed "race" family members but then facts never had slow you down to any degree at all.

In fact, I had expressed displeasures many times with a criminal justice system that have more blacks men locked behind bars then was living under slavery in 1850 in the US and that over 30 percents of black males in Florida can not votes due to the criminal justice system in Florida.

Strangely Firefly you never express any such concerns so who is the real racist here?

For that mater Firefly as a supporter of Al Sharpton who is the anti Semitic here?

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

A2K is FUN.

Even when some of the other members constantly thumb down your posts (even those that are completely innocuous) and say what a terrible person you are? Sad

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@BillRM,

Quote:

An innocent kid that by news reports Firefly that had been found shortly before with a large screw driver, a woman watch and women jewelry by the school security that he could only explained that some unname friend had given him to hold.

oh.. so lack of evidence is more proof of guilt?
Simply having a screwdriver and jewelry doesn't make anyone guilty unless you want to argue that the police wouldn't find those exact same things in your house Bill.

1 Reply

@parados,

No you are right as a 17 years old male I often did carry to school a large screw driver with a woman watch and other women jewelry as a matter of course and could not explain where I had gotten the above.

I am sure the others males on this thread also did likewise.

Shame on me for thinking bad of Trayvon for doing so and thinking it seems to be a strong indication that he might had been into small level crimes.

In fact I can not understand why the school turn over the jewelry to the police at the time.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Unfortunately, your comments either have no relevance to the actual evidence in this case, or, as usual, they are inaccurate regarding the actual evidence and facts.

Quote:

An innocent kid who turn and attack Zimmerman and try to pound his brain out on the sidewalk.

Did you listen to, or read, the 22 minute statement given to the police by the girl that Martin was talking to on his cell phone when Zimmerman was following him? Martin described a man who seemed "Creepy and crazy" observing and following him. He was trying to get away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman's behavior frightened him.

What is your evidence that Martin "turn and attack Zimmerman"?

Just before the shooting, why was Martin heard saying to Zimmerman, "Get off me. get off me," if he was the one who attacked Zimmerman? That comment indicates it was Zimmerman who got physical or grabbed Martin first, and that Martin responded in self defense.

Quote:

Just because Trayvan had a black skin does not mean that anyone who does not have such a skin tone does not have the right to question the manner of his walking late at night...

Late at night? 7 pm is not "late at night". Are you even aware of the basic facts of this case--like what time this incident occurred?

Your ignorance of the evidence and facts renders your remarks meaningless.

The police were never convinced by Zimmerman's account of events--they found his statements inconsistent, contradictory, and unconvincing. They wanted him arrested the night of the shooting and charged with manslaughter. And the prosecutor has just told the judge that they will use those statements to prove his guilt.

Try informing yourself regarding the actual evidence and facts in this case.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Sorry dear there are more then one witness that ID dear Trayvon as the one of top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman yelling for help.

To say nothing of the many wounds on Zimmerman and not a damn mark on Trayvon but for the wound cause by the gun shot.

But then you are as dishonest as can be so I am not at all surprise at your nonsense.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Sorry dear there are more then one witness that ID dear Trayvon as the one of top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman yelling for help.

To say nothing of the many wounds on Zimmerman and not a damn mark on Trayvon but for the wound cause by the gun shot.

That 's RIGHT.
This case shows the need for much stronger IMMUNITY
from criminal and/or civil litigation
for people who kill in self defense, or in defense of property.

David

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I see. Now you are acting like a complete idiot. I did carry a knife to school as well as other tools which could be classified as "burglary tools" since any tool that can be used to break a window is considered that. The police didn't find the jewelry was stolen. Not telling an authority figure where you got something isn't evidence it was stolen. You continue to make stuff up and then pretend it is "fact" simply because you want to believe it.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Sorry dear there are more then one witness that ID dear Trayvon as the one of top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman yelling for help.

Which is no evidence of who started the fight. It only shows who may have had the upper hand at that point.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Sorry dear there are more then one witness that ID dear Trayvon as the one of top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman yelling for help.

That doesn't tell you which one started the fight, you nitwit. Trayvon had a right to defend himself from Zimmerman if Zimmerman laid a hand on him first or was trying to hold him for the police.
They do not know which one was screaming for help--witness reports were conflicting, and FBI analysts could not identify the voice.

Quote:

To say nothing of the many wounds on Zimmerman and not a damn mark on Trayvon but for the wound cause by the gun shot.

What "many wounds" on Zimmerman? The paramedics at the scene reported "minor injuries with minor bleeding". He had two very small (an inch or less) cuts on the back of his head, and tenderness and minor bleeding from his nose. They noted no other significant injuries and Zimmerman refused further medical evaluation or treatment.

Does he look badly beaten to you--these photos were taken the night of the shooting.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-120517-zimmerman-02.photoblog900.jpg

You can see the two small scrapes--one an inch long, the other 1/4 of an inch long, on the back of his head, along with very minor bleeding. Such very minor injuries are not what you'd expect if his head had been repeatedly "pounded" into the pavement.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-120517-zimmerman-01.photoblog900.jpg

http://wttg.images.worldnow.com/images/1573606_G.jpg

http://wttg.images.worldnow.com/images/1573608_G.jpg

http://wttg.images.worldnow.com/images/1573609_G.jpg

http://wttg.images.worldnow.com/images/1573614_G.jpg

Note the lack of blood on Zimmerman's clothing. A broken nose, due to a strong direct blow to the nose, bleeds a lot. Where is the blood?

http://wttg.images.worldnow.com/images/1572639_G.jpg

This is not what a badly beaten face looks like. He was not punched in the eyes or the cheeks.

http://wttg.images.worldnow.com/images/1573605_G.jpg

Yeah, Zimmerman looks like he was in a fight, because Travyon Martin was defending himself from this "creepy and crazy" guy who followed and accosted him.
Martin was an innocent kid who was racially profiled by Zimmerman--it was the fact that Martin was young and black that caused Zimmerman to even notice him and inaccurately perceive his behavior as "suspicious".

The fact that there were no marks on Martin's body, beside a 1/4 inch cut on one finger, and the gunshot wound, means that Zimmerman made no attempt to fight back, he simply pulled out his gun and shot an unarmed kid at very close range--he did not use deadly force as a last resort. Because Zimmerman was afraid of being beaten up, in a fight he started, does not justify the use of deadly force.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

You seem to justify Zimmerman's racial profiling of Martin, which was the reason he found Martin "suspicious"--the kid was young and black. Martin, in fact, was doing nothing more than talking on his cell phone, and walking back home and trying to dodge the rain. He was staying in that gated community and had a perfect right to be there.

But, when you were in a park, with a box full of kittens, and interacting with strange children, you were upset that other adults felt your behavior fit the profile of a pedophile and they wanted you out of the park and away from the children. You carried on, in your posts in another thread, that you were being unfairly profiled and discriminated against because you were male--and you compared your treatment to that of blacks who were unfairly profiled.

So don't play dumb on the subject of racial profiling now. You are just being dishonest and hypocritical.

Zimmerman did racially profile Martin--and he was wrong. And that profiling set the wheels of a tragedy in motion and led to the death of an innocent kid.

Martin was not an inner city "hoodlum" criminal type--no matter how many times you try to inaccurately characterize him that way. This was a middle class suburban kid, with two responsible and concerned parents, and an older brother in college, who had no history of aggressive behaviors or any run-ins with the law. Zimmerman was the one with documented problems with aggression, and run-ins with the law, and he was on psychiatric medication for ADD/hyperactivity/impulsivity, all of which you are choosing to ignore.

All Zimmerman had to do that night was wait for the police to show up, and Trayvon Martin would be alive today--but this self-styled vigilante lacked the self control to be able to do that, and he wound up senselessly, and needlessly, killing an innocent kid. He must be held legally accountable for that needless death.

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@firefly,

Quote:

"Defendant (Zimmerman) has provided law enforcement with numerous statements, some of which are contradictory, and are inconsistent with the physical evidence and statements of witnesses," the prosecutors said in their court filing.

An interesting and very polite way of saying, "he's lying through his teeth."

Tell me again why anyone believes a word coming out of Zimmerman's mouth?

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

But, when you were in a park, with a box full of kittens, and interacting with strange children, you were upset that other adults felt your behavior fit the profile of a pedophile and they wanted you out of the park and away from the children. You carried on, in your posts in another thread, that you were being unfairly profiled and discriminated against because you were male--and you compared your treatment to that of blacks who were unfairly profiled.

So don't play dumb on the subject of racial profiling now. You are just being dishonest and hypocritical.

Oh god, thank you for that. That's the best smackdown I've seen all week.

0 Replies

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

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