Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Sorry as a gun carrying person when I am arm I go out of my way to not get into any kind of conflict and in fact must more so then when I am not arm.

Exactly my point. He should have done so as well.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

People shud not get arrested for reading the NY Times,
nor for merely defending themselves. Its OK to do both.

I agree with you here completely, David.

The problems that immediately arises for me, though (and perhaps you can help me)...are two:

One--is there any possible explanation for the wounds and blood Zimmermann had on the back of his head other than Martin attacked him?...and

...two--is it possible that even if Martin "attacked" Zimmermann, it was an incident of Tryvon "standing his ground" rather than an aggressive, preemptive move toward someone who just happened to be strolling along minding his own business?

Other than by trial, how could the state determine "who was being an aggressor"...and who was "standing his ground?"

And if there is a question about which it was, is an arrest not warranted--of the individual still breathing?

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@FreeDuck,

The disappointment and anger I feel about this tragedy is that it was a totally senseless act. I'd venture to say if anyone here that is reading this were to have been in similar circumtances, Trayvon would be alive and no incident would've occured. Are we any better than Zimmerman? That's debatable...but perhaps it's a case where we are simply just civilized.

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@djjd62,

Quote:

aww, poor zimmy, did the nasty bwack man, give you boo boo's on your noggin, well you better shoot him

with a shaved head, it doesn't take much to have that kind of blood running, i keep my head shaved for the most part, i've had blood like that when i've scratched my head on a nail sticking through an attic roof, looks very dramatic, but hardly the death blows many claim, especially when he never went to the hospital and to the best of my knowledge never needed stitches

You weren't there, neither was I, we do not know what happened. It could have been 1, 2, 3 or even more head slams. Maybe some just hit the neatly trimmed lawn, which might not draw blood but would give the head a hard enough hit to make one think they were in danger. One hit, smashed into the cement and then there was blood.

Perhaps George Zimmerman had some fear or a moment of panic that his life was about to end. We were not there, we do not know.

Head injuries can draw blood even if you have hair, I know, I've had them. There is an initial bleed, like what is seen in the photo (which may or may not be legit), then the blood slows in many cases (although I've been told by all the geniuses here that this is not the case, even though I have had actual experience with it happening). Discussion of stitches sometimes happens, well, usually happens and then in most cases is dismissed. The fact is, even the EMTs claimed that there were head injuries with blood.

Further, a scratch from a nail is not the same, not by any stretch of the imagination the same as having your head pushed hard into something. Further, a nail scratch is due to your own actions, it doesn't necessarily involve another person pushing you. There is a difference.

I don't expect you to get this djjd62, you aren't bright enough. Your mission in life is to go around and make slanderous comments on people regarding their sexuality...you've done this to Bloomberg at least 3 times that I've caught. It is similar to how you began your above post '....bwack man....' You make comments which I am sure at your low level of intelligence seem humor filled; but, in reality show your bigotry and narrow mindedness.

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@FreeDuck,

Quote:

Exactly my point. He should have done so as well.

If someone approach you and then attacked you for following him as you are on a crime watch patrol you do not have a great deal of room to maneuver and following someone is not so likely to provoke a violence attack that Zimmerman should had been able to predict that outcome.

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@Ragman,

Quote:

Trayvon would be alive and no incident would've occured.

If Trayvon has not attacked Zimmerman no harm would had resulted indeed.

If Zimmerman had not been arm we could had been hearing how the police had arrested a teenager for the assault or killing of a crime watch person.

1 Reply

@djjd62,

Zimmerman claimed that Martin noticed his gun and that he went for it and that Zimmerman shot him out of fear for his life. You are making up a retributive motive out of thin air.

There is plenty of evidence (including witnesses) that a fight occurred and the preponderance of this points at Martin having gained the upper hand in the fight and having beaten Zimmerman to some degree. Zimmerman claimed that Martin noticed his gun and went for it, and that Zimmerman feared for his life then.

Whether or not one finds the claim of self-defense credible is one thing but I don't think anyone would think that it compares in any way to scratching your heat on a roof. What do you want? A pat on the back for not shooting a roof? Come on!

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@Ragman,

Quote:

The disappointment and anger I feel about this tragedy is that it was a totally senseless act. I'd venture to say if anyone here that is reading this were to have been in similar circumtances, Trayvon would be alive....

If it had been me instead of Zimmerman, the kid would in fact probably be alive, but one of his arms would have been broken off at the elbow joint.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

If Trayvon has not attacked Zimmerman no harm would had resulted indeed.

What evidence are you relying on that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman? The only evidence I know of is Zimmerman's claim. But his account differs with the claim of Trayvon's girlfriend on the phone with him.

I'm not saying that he didn't but asking you why you appear to "know" what I consider to be "unknowable" right now.

Quote:

If Zimmerman had not been arm we could had been hearing how the police had arrested a teenager for the assault or killing of a crime watch person.

Actually Zimmerman claimed to police that it was fear of Martin taking the gun from him that made him fear for his life. You make this statement as if beating people results in death that easily but it doesn't work that way. Without the very weapons you invariably advocate the odds of anyone being fatally injured are much less in this situation. There were people and police on the way and it was very unlikely that a fatal beating would have occurred without any weapons being readily available.

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@gungasnake,

I am a tough guy on the internet too!

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Zimmerman shouldn't even have been charged. There are others who have done much worse.

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

The disappointment and anger I feel about this tragedy is that it was a totally senseless act.
I'd venture to say if anyone here that is reading this were to have been in similar circumtances, Trayvon would be alive....

gungasnake wrote:

If it had been me instead of Zimmerman, the kid would in fact probably be alive,
but one of his arms would have been broken off at the elbow joint.

I don 't think that 's safe, Gunga.
If u 'd done that, he 'd probably tell all kinds of lies against u, in both civil & criminal litigation,
after carefully plotting his strategy, alleging excessive force
and alleging his own innocence. Zimmy 's solution was a lot safer.

If u left him alive, I think he 'd make u regret it.

David

1 Reply

@BillRM,

i never said he needed to get put intensive care, i'm just questioning the extent of his injuries, head wounds bleed, that's why wrestlers for years have palmed blades to give themselves a superficial cut and bleed like stuck pigs, sure he might have got hit, but the life threatening aspect i don't buy

in the end the problem was the gun, zimmerman would probably not have pushed any issue and would have waited for the cops (as an observer) had he been unarmed, but he pushed some kind of agenda (wanted to be a cop but was inadequate maybe) and ended up killing someone, in my opinion he's just a coward with a gun ,it might turn out lucky for him that he lives in a state that has a seemingly sanctioned right to murder law

i hope his life is a living nightmare regardless of the outcome, all this bravado about guns and killing that some folks spout, i'd love to see how they'd really feel or react if they did kill someone, professionals who day after day have to live with the fact that they might kill someone (police and soldiers) often suffer severe trauma after a shooting

1 Reply

@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

i never said he needed to get put intensive care, i'm just questioning the extent of his injuries, head wounds bleed, that's why wrestlers for years have palmed blades to give themselves a superficial cut and bleed like stuck pigs, sure he might have got hit, but the life threatening aspect i don't buy

in the end the problem was the gun, zimmerman would probably not have pushed any issue and would have waited for the cops (as an observer) had he been unarmed,

O, reallly???
Please explain how u know this??

Do u deny that there r many 1OOOs of unarmed security guards
all over the place? Do u allege that thay fail to do their jobs,
refusing to confront anyone? Has that been your experience?

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

The basic idea of armlocks is to pull towards the little finger, if the subject ever comes up...

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@OmSigDAVID,

i don't know it, that's why i said probably

and his pretend, "i'm a cop" neighbourhood watch wasn't his job, it was a volunteer position, if he'd have been killed instead of martin, it would have turned out to be a pretty shitty hobby in my opinion

if i was a neighbourhood watch, i'd watch and report, and call the cops if i saw a crime, not put my life (or the life of someone else, even a criminal) in danger by introducing a gun into the situation

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

If u 'd done that, he 'd probably tell all kinds of lies against u ...

Look at your illogic, Dave, abusing the Sequence of Tenses rule.

Quote:

If u left him alive, I think he 'd make u regret it.

More stunning illogic. Using the present irrealis for an action that is finished.

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@OmSigDAVID,

No. What has your accusation of my murdering someone have to do with this case?

The fact that Zimmer had a gun is not license to kill, but the jury will determine if he's guilty of murder.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
We already know that Zimmerman has lied about the incident.
We DON 'T know that.

Seems pretty clear to me. Unless Zimmerman dragged the body, unnoticed, from the street to the pathway between the buildings.....

OmSigDAVID wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
If I recall correctly, he stated that he was attacked, from behind, when he got out of his truck to read a street sign.

Yet Trayvon's body was nowhere near the street.
There was an entire apartment building between the street and where he was shot.
Zimmy shot him in the chest; he did not cut off his legs.

What do u expect ?

Are you saying, now, that Zimmerman shot the kid in the street, and then Trayvon ran around the building and halfway down the footpath before collapsing?

That contradicts all of the testimony of the other witnesses. The struggle occurred between the buildings; the kid was shot there.

I expect that Zimmerman's story will continue to evolve, as he tries to find a narrative that will exonerate him.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Everyone has an equal right to defend himself.

Really? So, if someone breaks into your neighbor's house, and your neighbor shoots at the intruder (legally, due to the castle doctrine), then the intruder is legally entitled to shoot back? If the intruder kills the home owner, he can claim self defense?

Somehow, I doubt it.

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If Zimmerman were a cop would this be ruled a good shoot? Based upon what we know so far I think yes, though there would be a discipline for getting into a situation were the perp could grab his gun. This event should be used by watch groups as they decide whether to carry or not, as an example of the danger of patroling with a weapon, but that does not mean that a crime took place.

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Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

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