45
   

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 09:04 am
@BillRM,
How did Zimmerman get from his car to the sidewalk behind the buildings where there is no road Bill?

Zimmerman made several mistakes that any police officer would have told him not to do.

As a non police officer you don't do the following: (This is taught to civilian police reserves.Violations are not taken lightly because they create risk for the reserve and for officers.)
You don't get out of your car when you see someone suspicious. You simply call 911 and stay in your vehicle.
You don't follow on foot someone you think is suspicious. (You report description, last location and direction they were going.)
You certainly don't walk around searching for the suspicious person if you can no longer see them.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 09:05 am
@Joe Nation,
There 'ya go again, Joe....making sense and being logical.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 09:08 am
@Joe Nation,
I agree that nothing yet made available to the public suggests intentional homicide, a required element of the murder charge. a conviction for manslaughter requires proof of wrongful killing and, implicitly, that self-defense was not the motive. That too may be difficult in the circumstances.

It is hard to avoid the impression that the murder charge is a result of political pressure, brought to bear by the apoloigists for racism as the necessary factor in the case. In that context it is ironic to note that little has been made of the fact that, despite his Germanic name, Zimmerman is Hispanic with origins in Peru.

While one is speculating as you say, it does seem at least appropriate to note these possible factors as well.

I think that Bill's certainty of Zimmerman's innocence is, at least equally, absurd and narrow-minded.



parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 09:18 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I agree that nothing yet made available to the public suggests intentional homicide, a required element of the murder charge

That's completely false.

Quote:
In order to convict a defendant in Florida of Second-degree murder, the State of Florida must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

The victim is dead;
The death was caused by the criminal act of the defendant;
There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.

http://www.arnoldlawfirmllc.com/CM/Custom/SecondDegreeMurder.asp

There is nothing in the law requiring that the homicide was intentional. Firing a gun to scare someone and killing a bystander is second degree murder even though the homicide wasn't intentional.

The question in this case is did Zimmerman have no regard for human life. It is certainly arguable and I have stated I think he acted stupidly but probably not to the level of depraved.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 09:25 am
@parados,
More quibbling pedantry from the master. Read you linked phrases (with their subsequent qualifiers & illustrations) and then what I wrote again. Then think about it a bit (I have little faith you will do that.).

"... completely false" ?? Not at all.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 09:43 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I think that Bill's certainty of Zimmerman's innocence is, at least equally, absurd and narrow-minded.



I go by Occam's razor as far as the likely events that happen that night with what is known.
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 10:32 am
@georgeob1,
There are a half a dozen or so of the seriously messed up on A2K, the two worst being paradork and monkeyjerk; I just vote their **** down wherever I see it, I don't usually read any of itl
gungasnake
 
  3  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 10:39 am
The crime wave behind the Zimmerman/Martin story:

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/05/04/reexamining-the-trayvon-martin-shooting/

Quote:

In the months before their fatal meeting, Zimmerman’s Twin Lakes community was hit by a crime wave that saw young black men commit a number of break-ins and burglaries. As the collapse of Florida’s housing market took its toll on the community, depressing home values and driving up crime, Zimmerman and his neighbors increasingly began to fear for their safety and for the security of their homes. Reuters reports that in the 14 months before Martin was killed, there were at least eight burglaries reported in Twin Lakes. Residents also reported dozens of attempted break-ins and incidents of burglars casing homes. Zimmerman’s city of Sanford was especially hard hit. According to Neighborhood Scout, a website that aggregates crime in American cities, on a 100-point scale where 100 is most safe and zero is least safe, Sanford had a dismal rating of 3.
Zimmerman was well aware of the breadth of the crime problem in Sanford. Indeed, he was one of the victims. The Reuters report notes that in July 2011, a black teenager walked up to Zimmerman’s front porch and stole a bicycle. Zimmerman also saw his neighbors victimized by burglars. On August 3, just a few months after his bicycle had been stolen, two black men broke into the home of Zimmerman’s neighbor Olivie Bertalan and attempted to steal her television. Bertalan, then home alone with her infant son, called the police, who arrived just as the burglars fled. Police reports show that Bertalan subsequently reported a digital camera and a laptop computer as stolen. Among those who had seen the robbery was Zimmerman’s wife, Shellie, who witnessed a black male teenager running through her backyard and reported it to the police.
Such incidents suggest that Zimmerman was justified in worrying about crime in Sanford. If he was suspicious of unfamiliar black men in his neighborhood, he was not the only one. “People were freaked out,” Bertalan told Reuters. “It wasn’t just George calling police … we were calling police at least once a week.” Significantly, those worried about crime committed by young black men included Zimmerman’s black neighbors. One black neighbor interviewed by Reuters said:

Quote:
“Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. I’m black, OK? There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood. That’s why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.”


Tellingly, the woman refused to be identified. One can hardly blame her. By investing Martin’s shooting with racial connotations, the popular media and race demagogues like Al Sharpton have already incited a violent backlash, with black militants attacking whites under the banner of “justice for Trayvon.” That she wouldn’t wish to join the list of casualties of this racial revenge is understandable....


All of that and then this Martin kid sucker-punches the guy and instead of just walking away afterwards, pounces him and tries to kill him by beating his head against pavement and these losers are sitting there crying over him getting shot...

I mean, where's the outpouring of grief and rage over John Dillenger and Pretty Boy Floyd and Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker??
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 10:40 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
There are a half a dozen or so of the seriously messed up on A2K, the two worst being paradork and monkeyjerk; I just vote their **** down wherever I see it, I don't usually read any of itl
I don 't recognize those but I know of a few others,
some of whom have openly admitted to multiple mental illnesses,
including delusions & hallucinations.

Other posters have chronically shown extreme mental disorganization,
but thay do not admit mental illness.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 11:00 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
The question in this case is did Zimmerman have no regard for human life.
It is certainly arguable and I have stated I think he acted stupidly
but probably not to the level of depraved.
When a man is fighting for his life (like Zimmy was),
it is consumately stupid, and it is "DEPRAVED"
for him to be interested in keeping the predator alive.

Decency and ordinary logic require that he kill the predator as fast as he possibly CAN.
He probably shud have double-tapped, while Mr. T
was still actively engaged (especially, using feeble little 9mm Luger ammunition).
Apparently, he failed to do so.

If Mr. T had escaped and gone on to attack other citizens,
arguably, Zimmy 's irresponsibility woud have been to blame.





David
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 11:12 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
I go by Occam's razor as far as the likely events that happen that night with what is known.

No, you seem to be making up your own version of events.

You said this in a recent post.
Quote:
Well from my understanding Zimmerman had lost contact with the teenager and was returning to his car when he was attack from behind now to blame him for that seems a little silly.
URL: http://able2know.org/topic/188223-41

The problem with your fanciful fabricated version of events is that Zimmerman didn't tell police he was attacked from behind..
He described a face-to-face confrontation where he exchanged a few words with Martin and then he claims Martin punched him in the nose.

You can't even get your alleged facts straight, so you just make things up.

Why do your conclusions always fail to acknowledge known information that might contradict them?

Have you considered these facts:

Did Trayvon Martin have any prior history of violent aggressive behaviors where he "attacked" other people? Certainly none that we know of, and supporters of Zimmerman, who've been trying very hard to dig up dirt on Martin, have come up empty handed on any history of violent behavior.

Does George Zimmerman have any prior history of violent aggressive behaviors where he "attacked" other people? He sure does. He had two prior run-ins with the law over his violent aggressive attacking behaviors--and, in one of those, he was arrested for violently, aggressively, attacking a law enforcement officer and was court-ordered to take anger management classes.

So, which one of the two would you consider "more likely" to have provoked or instigated a violent aggressive confrontation?









0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 11:28 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David, I send a donation to Zimmerman's fund and somehow I think that 200,000 dollars will just be the start of the total amount his fund will reach.

Sharpton , the Media, and the State is not going to be railroading a man into prison for the crime of defensing himself this time no matter how many times Sharpton get in front of a crowd and work them up with NO JUSTICE NO PEACE or put another way if we do not locked up Zimmerman there once more will be riots.

Hate to need to have Obama not being reelected over this if there are riots but I am not willing to allow a man to be imprison for the crime of self defense no matter what the cost in public peace might be.

I do not wish this silliness to someday cause my wife to be charge with murder if she is knocked down and is having her head pounded into a sidewalk by some hoodlum. no matter what his skin color and she needed to kill him.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 11:58 am
@BillRM,
Do you feel that all black people should arm themselves for "self defense"?

Should we worry about Zimmerman's supporters rioting if he's convicted?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 01:24 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Do you feel that all black people should arm themselves for "self defense"?


Of course any citizen with no criminal record should be allow to be arm!!!!!!

Hell what is amusing is that Zimmerman had as must white European blood in his veins or as little as Obama does.......

Now thanks to the criminal justice system that you are a blind supporter of a large percents of the total black male population in Florida can neither vote or be arm due to felonies convictions.

Let see going to google the percents of black men who can not vote or carry/own firearm in Florida is.........

Quote:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121724

In Florida and Alabama, for instance, the figure is 31 percent, while in Mississippi it is 29 percent. In Virginia, 25 percent of otherwise eligible black men cannot vote


We need to change our so call justice system so for non violence crimes we are no do fast to slap the label of felon and voting rights should be return after a sentence is completed and even the right to own/carry weapons for non violence conviction should be restore after some period of years of good citizenship.

Off hand say 15 years or so.

Now as far as riots among Zimmerman supporters the last non black riot that I can recalled happen also in my home town of Miami in the 1980s among the Puerto Ricans and before that just after WW1 in Texas and before that the civil war draft riots.

I am sure had I miss a few but non black riots had not been a common happening for the last fifty years or so.

I guess we do not have the same numbers of Jackson and Sharptons in the non black communities.


firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 01:41 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Of course any citizen with no criminal record should be allow to be arm!!!!!!

But Zimmerman had a criminal record--he was arrested for violently, aggressively, attacking a law enforcement officer.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 01:56 pm
@BillRM,
Should everyone become a self-appointed vigilante? A one-man "neighbood-watch", who was armed, contrary to neighborhood watch guidelines, and who couldn't wait for police to arrive on the scene and do their job, and winds up shooting and killing someone he followed and considered "suspicious", could quite accurately be referred to as "a vigilante", couldn't he?

Noun: vigilante ,vi-ju'lan-tee
1.Member of a vigilance committee
- vigilance man

2.Someone who punishes perceived lawbreakers themself rather relying on the authorities.

And this one even has a past history of aggressively, violently, attacking a law enforcement officer.

Just the sort who should be carrying a gun and guarding the neighborhood. Rolling Eyes








BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 02:07 pm
By the way the history of both riots and lesser civil disorders in the US is interesting to say the least.

For example the reason we have a district of Columbia now is due to unpaid soldiers threatening and chasing out Congress from Philadelphia and the Governor of PA refusing to intervene.

Congress then came to the conclusion that they needed a Federal area that they could control and protect.

Ok I will sit on my fingers and stop getting that far off tropic.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 02:09 pm
@firefly,
Being arrested and convicted of a felony and losing your civil rights are not the same thing but you know that in your dishonest soul.

Sadly thirty percents of so of all adult black males in Florida are in that boat but Zimmerman is not.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 02:15 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Should everyone become a self-appointed vigilante? A one-man "neighbood-watch", who was armed, contrary to neighborhood watch guidelines, and who couldn't wait for police to arrive on the scene and do their job, and winds up shooting and killing someone he followed and considered "suspicious", could quite accurately be referred to as "a vigilante", couldn't he?


Spinning away like mad as there are as yet zero indication that he confronted Trayvon instead of being attacked by Trayvon on his way back to his car.

No matter how you spin it following someone on the public streets and trying to get the police on the scene is not an act that is either illegal or being a self-appointed vigilante whether you are arm or not arm.

Do you ever get dizzy by spinning so fast?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2012 02:25 pm
@firefly,
Strange is it not that Sharpton is not leading marches demanding that one third of black males get their rights to vote back or that the justice system be change so not so large a percent of blacks lives and futures are destroy by the justice system of Florida?

Or march again black gangs that kill thousands of black teenagers like Trayvon or the war on drug that support those gangs?
0 Replies
 
 

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