Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

Neo-Nazis patrolling streets of Sanford, Fla., where Trayvon shot and killed
ALIYAH SHAHID
April 07, 2012

The Trayvon Martin case is getting even more heated as armed neo-Nazis are reportedly patrolling the streets of Sanford, Fla.-where the black, unarmed teen was shot and killed.

A representative for the Detroit-based National Socialist movement told the Miami New Times that his group of roughly 10 to 20 volunteers aren't there to start trouble, but are prepared to protect the "white citizens in the area" in the event of race riots.

"Whenever there is one of these racially charged events, Al Sharpton goes wherever blacks need him," Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement told the news organization. "We do similar things. We are a white civil rights organization…We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over."
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-04-07/news/31306033_1_race-riots-racial-violence-usa-poll

Armed Neo-Nazis Now Claim To Be Patrolling Sanford, Say They Are "Prepared" for Post-Trayvon Martin Violence
By Michael Miller
Apr. 8 2012

Neo-Nazis say they are conducting heavily armed patrols in and around Sanford, Florida, and are "prepared" for violence in case of a race riot. The patrols are to protect "white citizens in the area who are concerned for their safety" in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting last month, says Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement. "We are not advocating any type of violence or attacks on anybody, but we are prepared for it," he says. "We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over."

Because nothing diffuses racial tension like gun-toting racial separatists patrolling an already on-edge community.

Schoep, whose neo-Nazi group is based in Detroit, tells Riptide the patrols are a response to white residents' fears of a race riot....

The patrols comprise ten to 20 locals and "volunteers" from across the state, including some from Miami, he adds. He couldn't specify what kind of firepower the patrols had with them.

"In Arizona the guys can walk around with assault weapons, and that's totally legal," Schoep says, referring to the group's patrols of the U.S.-Mexico border. "What I can tell you is that any patrols that we are doing now in Florida are totally within the law."

Asked if the patrols wouldn't just make things worse -- spark a race riot, for instance -- Schoep insists they are simply a "show of solidarity with the white community down there" and "wouldn't intimidate anybody."...

Schoep is also quick to clarify he isn't taking sides in Trayvon Martin's controversial shooting. "That's for the courts to decide," he says. Besides, Schoep says, Zimmerman is not even white.

"I think there is some confusion going on," Schoep says. "A lot of people think that this guy who shot Trayvon was white... but he's half Hispanic or Cuban or something. He certainly doesn't look white to me."

To some, sending in the storm troops seems like a sure way to incite -- not prevent -- a race riot. But Schoep says that's way off base.

"We don't wish for things like that," he says. "But there have been race riots in Detroit and L.A.... So we know those types of things happen.

"You can either be prepared or you can be blindsided," he adds. "This way, if something were to touch off a race riot, we'd already be in the area."

How reassuring...

UPDATE 3: Schoep's group has emailed photos of two (unarmed) members holding a Nazi flag near Sanford's city hall. Police still say they have no evidence of the group patrolling the area.

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php

Spinning away like mad as there are as yet zero indication that he confronted Trayvon instead of being attacked by Trayvon on his way back to his car.

We can see the mentality of some of the people who, like you, are concerned about rioting by blacks. And, you're the only one on this thread trying to stir up hysteria about black rioting.

Because nothing diffuses racial tension like gun-toting racial separatists patrolling an already on-edge community.

Schoep, whose neo-Nazi group is based in Detroit, tells Riptide the patrols are a response to white residents' fears of a race riot....

The patrols comprise ten to 20 locals and "volunteers" from across the state, including some from Miami, he adds. He couldn't specify what kind of firepower the patrols had with them.

When a man is fighting for his life (like Zimmy was),

When a man is fighting for his life (like Zimmy was),

Really?

You are going to continue to argue that he was fighting for his life
when there is really little evidence to support that?

Zimmy.

heh heh.

Like anyone in his life ever called him that.

Joe(joey)Nation

George Zimmerman told police that Trayvon Martin circled his SUV, source says
By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner
The Orlando Sentinel
Friday, May 4, 2012

ORLANDO, Fla. - George Zimmerman told investigators that while he was on the phone with a Sanford police dispatcher reporting Trayvon Martin as suspicious, the teenager was circling his vehicle on foot, a source familiar with the investigation told the Orlando Sentinel.

The source said Zimmerman’s account of events hasn’t changed in his several statements to police - in which he said he was so unnerved by the teenager’s behavior that he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation. However, he never mentioned any of that while talking to the dispatcher.

The details revealed by the source provide new insight into what Zimmerman said happened in the earliest moments of his contact with Martin. And they may reveal the inconsistencies alluded to by prosecutors in the case.

One of those inconsistencies: Zimmerman told police that Martin had his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth during their fight on the night he shot Martin.

The Sentinel’s source confirmed that Zimmerman’s statements include that allegation. But authorities do not believe that happened, the source told the Sentinel, because on one 911 call, someone can be heard screaming for help. If it were Zimmerman, as he claims, his cries were not muffled, the source said.

Zimmerman also told police, the source told the Sentinel, that while the two were on the ground, Martin reached for Zimmerman’s gun, and the two struggled over it.

Those portions of Zimmerman’s account are not corroborated by other evidence, the source said.

Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, said he hasn’t yet seen his client’s statements to police, and it would be inappropriate for him to address specific evidence in the case.

"It’s hard for me to even comment on it," O’Mara said.

Spokesman Sgt. David Morgenstern said the Sanford Police Department "cannot make any comments on anything related to the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case."

Reached in Birmingham, Ala., Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump said Thursday that Zimmerman’s claim that he was screaming in the 911 call and that his mouth was covered by the teenager don’t add up.

"Tracy Martin [Trayvon’s father] told me that that’s what [police] told him," Crump said, of Zimmerman making those statements to police.

"It’s either one or the other, it can’t be both," Crump said. "We have to put together this puzzle because, unfortunately, we don’t have Trayvon Martin’s version" of events.

A spokeswoman for special prosecutor Angela Corey declined to comment.

Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the shooting death of Martin in a Sanford gated community on Feb. 26. Zimmerman told police that he acted in self-defense. Critics say he is guilty of racial profiling and killing an innocent teenager.

In an audio recording of Zimmerman’s call to police that night, Zimmerman says Martin is acting suspiciously and describes him as a black teenager when prompted by the dispatcher.

He does not say that Martin was circling his vehicle, but that’s what he told police later that night and has consistently told authorities in subsequent interviews, according to the Sentinel’s source.

Here, according to that source, is the account that Zimmerman provided:

Zimmerman spotted Martin, called a nonemergency police number and began describing the teenager. While he was doing that, Martin came toward his vehicle and began to circle it.

Zimmerman, though, never described that to the dispatcher.

At one point, about halfway through the four-minute call, he told the dispatcher, "Now he’s just staring at me. ... Now he’s coming towards me. He’s got his hand in his waistband. ... He’s coming to check me out."

Martin then disappeared, Zimmerman later told authorities, according to the source, and while Zimmerman was still on the phone, he parked his vehicle, got out and began trying to find Martin on foot.

Zimmerman can be heard huffing and puffing on the call to police.

"Are you following him?" the dispatcher asks.

"Yeah," Zimmerman said.

"We don’t need you to do that," the dispatcher says.

Zimmerman later told investigators he could not find Martin, so he turned and was walking back toward his SUV. A short time later, Martin approached him from the rear, and the two exchanged words, he told authorities.

Martin threw the first punch, he told police. It knocked Zimmerman to the ground, and the teenager then got on top of Zimmerman and began beating his head against a sidewalk, police have said in recounting Zimmerman’s version of events.

At an April 20 bond hearing in Sanford, Dale Gilbreath, an investigator for Special Prosecutor Angela Corey, testified that Zimmerman told authorities he was frightened because Martin circled him while he sat in his SUV.

Gilbreath described that as one of the inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s story - because getting out of the vehicle and looking for Martin is not the act of someone who is afraid.

Gilbreath did not testify that Zimmerman claimed the circling happened while he was on the phone with the dispatcher.

Gilbreath also testified briefly about Zimmerman telling police that Martin had his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth during the fight.

Several audio experts who have analyzed the 911 recordings for the Sentinel and other news organizations have said they believe it is Martin’s voice - not Zimmerman’s - crying out for help. However, Gilbreath testified that similar identification attempts by law enforcement were fruitless.
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view.bg?articleid=1061129262

Why do your conclusions always fail to acknowledge known information that might contradict them?

Have you considered these facts:

Did Trayvon Martin have any prior history of violent aggressive behaviors where he "attacked" other people? Certainly none that we know of, and supporters of Zimmerman, who've been trying very hard to dig up dirt on Martin, have come up empty handed on any history of violent behavior.

Does George Zimmerman have any prior history of violent aggressive behaviors where he "attacked" other people? He sure does. He had two prior run-ins with the law over his violent aggressive attacking behaviors--and, in one of those, he was arrested for violently, aggressively, attacking a law enforcement officer and was court-ordered to take anger management classes.

So, which one of the two would you consider "more likely" to have provoked or instigated a violent aggressive confrontation?

parados wrote:

You are going to continue to argue that he was fighting for his life
when there is really little evidence to support that?

The answer is YES,
but I reject your premise.

The Nationist(sic) Socialist Movement is the largest neo-Nazi group in the country.

Cops work as off duty bouncers at bars many times so it likely to be that Zimmerman had gotten into a conflict with a bouncer that also happen to be a cop. Do you had any other information that would lead someone to another conclusion?

Sorry he had no record that would lead one to assume that he is a racist...

Are you quibbling about the meaning of "intentional"?

NPR
What Does 2nd Degree Murder Mean?
April 12, 2012

George Zimmerman has been arrested for the death of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin. Now the focus shifts to the trial ahead. Guest host Viviana Hurtado speaks with former prosecutor Paul Butler about what Zimmerman's second degree murder charge means, and what potential pitfalls could face attorneys on both sides.

VIVIANA HURTADO, HOST:

We turn now from the arrest of George Zimmerman to the potential trial ahead. As we mentioned, George Zimmerman is facing second degree murder charges in the death of Trayvon Martin. And to make sense of what that means and what we might expect in the courtroom, we turn to Professor Paul Butler. He's with the George Washington University Law School and he's a former federal prosecutor. Professor, thanks for coming back on the program.

PAUL BUTLER: Hey. It's great to be back.

HURTADO: Professor, so can you tell us about the charge of second degree murder? We know the maximum sentence is life in prison; minimum 25 years. But what does the prosecution have to prove?

BUTLER: So the prosecutor threw the book at Mr. Zimmerman. This is the most serious charge that she could have brought. It's second degree murder, which means that she has to prove that he had a depraved mind, that he acted willfully and maliciously. You know, on the "Today" show this morning, Trayvon's mom said that she thought that the shooting was an accident, that it was a fight that got out of hand.

No, that's not evidence in the case, but if that's true that means the jury has to find him not guilty on murder. That would be more consistent with a manslaughter charge, which is what a lot of the legal experts were thinking would be brought.

HURTADO: And in fact, Professor, you're just saying right now that the special prosecutor threw the book. But earlier this week you told host Michel Martin that you thought this looked like a, quote, "garden variety manslaughter case," unquote. So, what's the difference between second degree murder and manslaughter?

BUTLER: So, manslaughter would be not necessarily an accident but recklessness. That Mr. Zimmerman should've known better but something - he got too emotional, he got overly excited, and created this horrible result. Murder implies something more malicious, something more intentional. It's not first degree, so it doesn't have to be premeditated. But it has to come close to that in terms of being willful.

And, you know, I don't know that we've heard much evidence of that so far. Now, Ms. Corey, the special prosecutor, was careful to emphasize in the press conference that she knows a lot more than what's been reported in the press. You know, on the other hand, she's known for being a very tough prosecutor and what some hardcore types do is overcharge. Because what they're trying to do is coerce a plea deal. So what people suspect is maybe she's charging Mr. Zimmerman with the most serious charge hoping that he'll agree to plead guilty to manslaughter.

HURTADO: And let's turn from the prosecutors to Zimmerman's defense. How will Florida's Stand Your Ground law play in this case?

BUTLER: So, what it does is provide immunity. So, in most jurisdictions that don't have this kind of weird law, it's a defense at trial. Here, it's a determination that, first, the judge will make. The judge will decide if it was reasonable for Mr. Zimmerman to believe that he was being attacked, that his life was being threatened or in jeopardy by Trayvon. And if that's true, the case is over. It doesn't go to the jury. And, again, in most jurisdictions, the jury would decide that right at the outset. The judge gets to make that decision in Florida.

HURTADO: And let's go to a quick clip from George Zimmerman's new lawyer. Here's Mark O'Mara addressing the media last night.

MARK O'MARA: I cannot imagine living in George Zimmerman's shoes for the past number of weeks, only because he has sort of been at the focus of a lot of anger and maybe confusion and maybe some hatred and that's got to be difficult.

HURTADO: So there are a lot of emotions that Mark O'Mara is highlighting in all the media coverage of the case. Can you shed some light on the challenges posed in finding an impartial jury?

BUTLER: You know, it's going to be difficult because lots of people have heard of the case. So, neither the prosecutor nor the defense will want jurors who don't know anything about the case because that would mean that they were living under a rock.

What the challenge will be is to find folks who haven't already made up their mind. You know, in the segment, the congresswoman said that the entire community was elated about this prosecution. And I'm not sure that that's exactly right. I think that there are a number of supporters of Mr. Zimmerman, as well as a number of people who think that he's a murderer. And so, the challenge will be to find people who can set aside everything that they've heard and that they think they know and can just listen to the evidence in court.

HURTADO: And, Paul, this really goes to a question of time as far as how the public has digested it. It's been a month and a half since Trayvon Martin was killed. Can you talk a little bit about the problems that the prosecution faces?

BUTLER: You know, they have to deal with the fact that the investigation wasn't as quick or as thorough - the initial investigation - as a lot of prosecutors would hope. So, amazingly, there was apparently a forensic exam, a drug test on Trayvon, but not on Mr. Zimmerman. So that's just one illustration of how the prosecutor has a lot of work to do 45 days after the killing.

HURTADO: Paul Butler is a former federal prosecutor. He's currently a professor at the George Washington University Law School and he joined us here in our D.C. studio. Thanks so much for being here.

BUTLER: It's always a pleasure.
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/12/150496674/what-does-2nd-degree-murder-mean?ps=rs