Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

thay have a more intense need to fight back than the whites do

What an idiotic, racially nonsensical comment! Is JGoldman back?

What an idiotic, racially nonsensical comment! Is JGoldman back?

Quote:

thay have a more intense need to fight back than the whites do

Liar....the jury will be instructed that if they believe it more likely than not that George was defending himself from imminent harm then they can not rule him guilty of the charges as he as immunity from the charges.

A defendant charged with a crime who wants to raise Stand your Ground files a motion to dismiss claiming stand your ground immunizes him from prosecution...

A hearing is held before trial. The burden is on the defendant to prove by a preponderance of evidence that stand your ground immunity applies.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/12/194725/132

....the jury will be instructed that if they believe it more likely than not that George was defending himself from imminent harm then they can not rule him guilty of the charges as he as immunity from the charges.

The prosecution must prove his guilt at the jury trial beyond a reasonable doubt. Which means, if the defendant raises self-defense or stand your ground at trial and gets the jury instruction, the state, which has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, must disprove self-defense.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/12/194725/132

The burden is on the defendant to prove by a preponderance of evidence that stand your ground immunity applies.

In theory, u shud be able
to figure it out. A higher proportion of them fall victim
to criminal violence; hence, thay need to address that more than we do.

By Michelle Washington
The Virginian-Pilot
© May 1, 2012
Wave after wave of young men surged forward to take turns punching and kicking their victim.

The victim's friend, a young woman, tried to pull him back into his car. Attackers came after her, pulling her hair, punching her head and causing a bloody scratch to the surface of her eye. She called 911. A recording told her all lines were busy. She called again. Busy. On her third try, she got through and, hysterical, could scream only their location.

Church and Brambleton. Church and Brambleton. Church and Brambleton.

It happened four blocks from where they work, here at The Virginian-Pilot.

Two weeks have passed since reporters Dave Forster and Marjon Rostami - friends to me and many others at the newspaper - were attacked on a Saturday night as they drove home from a show at the Attucks Theatre. They had stopped at a red light, in a crowd of at least 100 young people walking on the sidewalk. Rostami locked her car door. Someone threw a rock at her window. Forster got out to confront the rock-thrower, and that's when the beating began.

Neither suffered grave injuries, but both were out of work for a week. Forster's torso ached from blows to his ribs, and he retained a thumb-sized bump on his head. Rostami fears to be alone in her home. Forster wishes he'd stayed in the car.

Many stories that begin this way end much worse. Another colleague recently wrote about the final defendant to be sentenced in the beating death of 19-year-old James Robertson in East Ocean View five years ago. In that case, a swarm of gang members attacked Robertson and two friends. Robertson's friends got away and called for help; police arrived to find Robertson's stripped, swollen corpse.

Forster and Rostami's story has not, until today, appeared in this paper. The responding officer coded the incident as a simple assault, despite their assertions that at least 30 people had participated in the attack. A reporter making routine checks of police reports would see "simple assault" and, if the names were unfamiliar, would be unlikely to write about it. In this case, editors hesitated to assign a story about their own employees. Would it seem like the paper treated its employees differently from other crime victims?

More questions loomed.

Forster and Rostami wondered if the officer who answered their call treated all crime victims the same way. When Rostami, who admits she was hysterical, tried to describe what had happened, she says the officer told her to shut up and get in the car. Both said the officer did not record any names of witnesses who stopped to help. Rostami said the officer told them the attackers were "probably juveniles anyway. What are we going to do? Find their parents and tell them?"

The officer pointed to public housing in the area and said large groups of teenagers look for trouble on the weekends. "It's what they do," he told Forster.

Could that be true? Could violent mobs of teens be so commonplace in Norfolk that police and victims have no recourse?

Police spokesman Chris Amos said officers often respond to reports of crowds fighting; sirens are usually enough to disperse the group. On that night, he said, a report of gunfire in a nearby neighborhood prompted the officer to decide getting Forster and Rostami off the street quickly made more sense than remaining at the intersection. The officer gave them his card and told them to call later to file a report.

The next day, Forster searched Twitter for mention of the attack.

One post chilled him.

"I feel for the white man who got beat up at the light," wrote one person.

"I don't," wrote another, indicating laughter. "(do it for trayvon martin)"

Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teen, died after being shot by a community watch captain with white and Hispanic parents, George Zimmerman, in Florida.

Forster and Rostami, both white, suffered a beating at the hands of a crowd of black teenagers.

Was either case racially motivated? Were Forster and Rostami beaten in some kind of warped, vigilante retribution for a killing 750 miles away, a person none of them knew? Was it just bombast? Is a beating funny, ever?

Here's why their story is in the paper today. We cannot allow such callousness to continue unremarked, from the irrational, senseless teenagers who attacked two people just trying to go home, from the police officer whose conduct may have been typical but certainly seems cold, from the tweeting nitwits who think beating a man in Norfolk will change the death of Trayvon Martin.

How can we change it if we don't know about it? How can we make it better if we look away?

Are we really no better than this?

Michelle Washington is a columnist for The Virginian-Pilot. Email: [email protected]

Is that right? I've kind of got a feeling that if Zimmerman had not been armed, he wouldn't have confronted or chased anyone.

I'm in no way opposed to the ownership and carrying of firearms, but when having a gun prompts you to insert yourself into situations you would otherwise avoid, you need to be very certain of your judgement.

roger wrote:

Is that right? I've kind of got a feeling that if Zimmerman had not been armed, he wouldn't have confronted or chased anyone.

I'm in no way opposed to the ownership and carrying of firearms, but when having a gun prompts you to insert yourself into situations you would otherwise avoid, you need to be very certain of your judgement.

Lemme see if I 've got this straight, Roger;
when I have my guns on me, then I am moven to chase people ?

Chris Smith's Independent 'Stand Your Ground' Review Committee Recommendations Revisions, Not Repeal
05/ 1/2012

An independent review panel formed to examine Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' law released its recommendations Monday in a 21-page report, citing "overwhelming documentation of the law’s use, and more importantly, its abuse" while calling for a strict revision that would have sent George Zimmerman directly into custody.

Chris Smith, a democratic state senator from Fort Lauderdale, created the task force to address the state's notorious self-defense law after becoming frustrated by Governor Rick Scott's slow response in the Trayvon Martin case.

Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, shot and killed Martin, an unarmed Miami Gardens teen, in a gated Sanford neighborhood on February 26.

Although Zimmerman reportedly pursued the unarmed teen several blocks, he was not arrested, claiming self-defense under the Stand Your Ground law.

In early April, Smith gathered a panel of prosecutors, defense attorneys, police chiefs, and law professors to critically examine the 2005 law, which ambiguously permits citizens to use lethal force anywhere they are legally allowed to be to prevent "death or great bodily harm."

"Stand Your Ground empowers people to maybe think we can decrease the value of human life," state attorney Michael Satz said at a task force meeting. "We have to stop being John Wayne and start caring about other people."

Instead of recommending a repeal of Stand Your Ground entirely, however, Smith and his task force recommend allowing police to charge someone if the victim was unarmed or was in the process of fleeing -- a scenario that would have put Zimmerman directly in custody after the February 26 shooting.

Their Stand Your Ground revisions also require that such cases be reviewed for "reasonableness" by a grand jury instead of one state attorney, as the law requires now.

And to further keep tabs on whether the law is being abused as a "shield of immunity" for defendants who were actually aggressors, Smith and his panel propose keeping extensive records of Stand Your Ground claims and outcomes.

In the report, Smith and the panel state their ultimate goal is to prevent a "system tantamount to lawlessness, where any person can, within a matter of seconds, render himself investigator, judge, jury and executioner, all in one."

Since Smith's task force initially met, Zimmerman has been charged with second-degree murder and remains in hiding after posting bail.

Eight days after Zimmerman's court appearance, Gov. Scott formed an official Stand Your Ground task force, which meets for the first time on Tuesday.

Although Smith had hoped to send his recommendations to Scott's panel, a governor spokesperson said it was not the place for "public comment." Smith said he would sponsor a bill in the Florida Legislature in 2013 to see that his group's recommendations get proper consideration.

For the full report, which includes revision recommendations, task force members' biographies, and recent Stand Your Ground cases in Florida, click here. http://senatorchrissmith.com/standyourground/finalreport.pdf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/01/chris-smith-stand-ground_n_1467657.html

Gov. Rick Scott’s official task force on public safety meets Tuesday to establish its mission and plan future meetings. That 19-member panel will put forth recommendations to the governor and the Legislature about Stand Your Ground and other safety issues...

Like Smith’s task force, the governor’s panel includes both prosecutors and criminal defense attorneys, who often square of in court in self -defense cases

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2777117/florida-task-force-seeks-major.html#storylink=cpy

'Stand Your Ground' task force meets amid George Zimmerman case
By Troy Kinsey,
Capitol Reporter
Tuesday, May 01, 2012

TALLAHASSEE -- It has been weeks since Gov. Rick Scott formed a task force to review Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law in response to growing outcry in the case against George Zimmerman.

Now, that task force has finally started getting down to business as it kicked off its inaugural meeting Tuesday in Tallahassee.

Zimmerman told investigators he shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in self-defense, prompting many to cite "Stand Your Ground," which permits people facing an imminent threat to fire on their attacker without having to retreat.

Critics have argued the law, passed in 2005 by then-Gov. Jeb Bush, is too broad.

Tuesday's meeting opened with some very pointed comments by the task force's chairwoman, Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll, who told the group, "The law is not 'Stand Your Ground.'"

That's a reflection of the Scott administration's attempt to draw a line between the law and its role in the George Zimmerman case.

The special prosecutor Scott assigned to the case said the law doesn't apply.

Still, calls continue to mount to revise or repeal it.

Critics pointed to new crime figures showing justifiable homicides in Florida are up by 20 percent, and they believe "Stand Your Ground" is playing a role.

Scott has also been criticized for packing the panel with advocates of the gun lobby. But moments after Tuesday's meeting got under way, Carroll fired back.

"Out of the 19 total members on this task force, I am unaware of the other 15 members' position on this law, or if they favor or disfavor of gun laws," she said. "So it is a mischaracterization for anyone to presume that this task force is not balanced."

No big decisions or votes were expected Tuesday. The main focus for Day 1 is how the panel will go about its business and where it might hold public hearings.
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/5/1/stand_your_ground_ta.html

Sadly Trayvon doomed himself when he assaulted Zimmerman that night, one way or another.

Is that right? I've kind of got a feeling that if Zimmerman had not been armed, he wouldn't have confronted or chased anyone.

Although Zimmerman reportedly pursued the unarmed teen several blocks, he was not arrested, claiming self-defense under the Stand Your Ground law.