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Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2012 09:56 pm
@BillRM,
Scrapes on the back of the head is not justification to shoot anyone dead.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2012 10:11 pm
@BillRM,
Here is another link from Florida lawyer web page/blog on the burden of proof issue in self defense cases.

http://www.jacksonvillecriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2012/04/jacksonville-criminal-defense-11.html

Instead, Mr. Zimmerman has a very low burden of proof in order to show self-defense. He must show enough evidence for a reasonable juror the simply possibility of believing Mr. Zimmerman acted in self-defense. As one court stated, if a defendant on trial for Murder in the Second Degree can raise enough evidence that a reasonable juror could believe he acted in justifiable self-defense, "the state had the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense." This language comes from Mosansky v. Florida, a case decided only two years ago in 2010.

In other words, Mr. Zimmerman must produce this minimal level of evidence to support a reasonable juror's belief in his defense. Once that is done, the state will have the burden to show that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.

You might be thinking this sounds like a pretty low burden for Mr. Zimmerman to show self-defense, and you're right. The state will likely have a difficult time securing a conviction in this case.

OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2012 10:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Scrapes on the back of the head is not justification to shoot anyone dead.
The next time that u r having your brain beaten
against the cement, just let them do it ALL THAY WANT.

Let them have fun; its OK with me, C.I.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2012 10:22 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Here is another link from Florida lawyer web page/blog on the burden of proof issue in self defense cases.

http://www.jacksonvillecriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2012/04/jacksonville-criminal-defense-11.html

Instead, Mr. Zimmerman has a very low burden of proof in order to show self-defense. He must show enough evidence for a reasonable juror the simply possibility of believing Mr. Zimmerman acted in self-defense. As one court stated, if a defendant on trial for Murder in the Second Degree can raise enough evidence that a reasonable juror could believe he acted in justifiable self-defense, "the state had the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense." This language comes from Mosansky v. Florida, a case decided only two years ago in 2010.

In other words, Mr. Zimmerman must produce this minimal level of evidence to support a reasonable juror's belief in his defense. Once that is done, the state will have the burden to show that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.

You might be thinking this sounds like a pretty low burden for Mr. Zimmerman to show self-defense, and you're right. The state will likely have a difficult time securing a conviction in this case.
That sounds good to me, Bill!

He shud sue Mr. T 's estate for his head injuries.





David
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2012 10:35 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
This assumes Zimmy can prove self-defense. We don't know what the other side knows or will show during trial.

Don't try to settle the case "outside the court room." That's simple logic.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2012 10:36 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Who's brain was beaten? Do you have proof of that? Or is that just your imagination working?

You're an attorney? ROFLMAO

What that article says is,
Quote:
The state will likely have a difficult time securing a conviction in this case.


Is a bit weaker than "will have a difficult time." He's guessing too!
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2012 10:43 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
The next time that u r having your brain beaten
against the cement, just let them do it ALL THAY WANT.

Let them have fun; its OK with me, C.I.


LOL..........................
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2012 11:11 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
once more it is the state repeat the state burden prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman version of self defense is not true.

No, you don't have that correct either. You are confusing what the state must prove at trial with what goes on at an immunity hearing.
Quote:
Two years ago, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that anyone claiming "stand your ground" immunity in a death, battery or assault case can request a hearing on the evidence.

The hearing allows the prosecution and defense to argue all the elements of self-defense in the case evidence. To get charges dismissed, the accused must convince the judge that a reasonable person would believe that using deadly force or the threat of deadly force was the only way to protect his or her life, court records show....

In its Dec. 16, 2010, ruling, the state Supreme Court stated that defendants claiming self-defense are entitled to evidentiary hearings to argue that the evidence in their cases proves they had the right to protect themselves.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-11/news/os-george-zimmerman-stand-your-ground-hearings-20120411_1_eric-sandhaus-craig-sandhaus-milton-torres

And the judge must be convinced by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant had a right to defend himself with deadly force--and it's the defendant who has to convince the judge of that. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" doesn't enter into an immunity hearing at all--it's a lower standard of proof in an immunity hearing than it is in a criminal trial.

The immunity hearing is a specific defense motion to dismiss the claims of the prosecution. Therefore, it's the defense who must present the arguments and evidence in support of their motion.

You have this fantasy that people don't have to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that they acted in self defense because they feared for their lives, when that's exactly what they must do to convince a judge at an immunity hearing in Florida.

But, Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer has said he's not even sure that the Stand Your Ground statute even applies in this case. If he feels the statute does not apply, he might not even request an immunity hearing and it will just go to arraignment and then trial. Or, even if the statute does not apply, the hearing can be held, but the judge can reject the motion to dismiss if he feels the statute does not apply, or if he is not convinced by a preponderance of the evidence that the killing of Martin was a justifiable act of self defense. Zimmerman will then go to trial.
Quote:
Sorry this case was created out of political pressure and will not go beyond the self defense hearing.

It was public pressure, not political pressure, that resulted in the appointment of a special prosecutor, and it was her decision to arrest and charge Zimmerman.
If anything, that same public pressure would be in the direction of moving the case to trial and not dismissing it.
That doesn't mean that the judge will be influenced by public pressure, from either side, and it doesn't mean that he won't rule solely based on the law and the evidence presented to him at the immunity hearing.

But you don't seem to understand exactly what transpires at an immunity hearing--not if you don't understand what the defendant has to prove at such a hearing.
Your understanding of actual legal issues and legal proceedings is rather confused and distorted, which is par for the course with you.






hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 12:09 am
@firefly,
Quote:
No, you don't have that correct either. You are confusing what the state must prove at trial with what goes on at an immunity hearing.


Liar....the jury will be instructed that if they believe it more likely than not that George was defending himself from imminent harm then they can not rule him guilty of the charges as he as immunity from the charges.

Quote:
A defendant charged with a crime who wants to raise Stand your Ground files a motion to dismiss claiming stand your ground immunizes him from prosecution. Here is a typical motion, filed in another case in December, 2011. Here's another filed in January, 2012.

A hearing is held before trial. The burden is on the defendant to prove by a preponderance of evidence that stand your ground immunity applies.

The judge weighs the facts. If the judge agrees the defendant has shown stand your ground immunity applies by a preponderance of evidence, the charges are dismissed. The defendant can't be prosecuted.

If the judge finds the defendant hasn't met his burden, (including if the disputed evidence is so equal on both sides the judge can't decide one way or the other) the case goes to trial to be decided by the jury. At trial, the defendant can still argue both self-defense and stand your ground immunity -- he only has to establish some evidence of his theory, which can be just his own testimony, that he acted in self-defense.

The prosecution must prove his guilt at the jury trial beyond a reasonable doubt. Which means, if the defendant raises self-defense or stand your ground at trial and gets the jury instruction, the state, which has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, must disprove self-defense. If the jury has a doubt, the defendant must be acquitted

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/12/194725/132
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 01:10 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
George Zimmerman's attorney has launched an all-out social media campaign on behalf of his client, accused of second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin.

That social media effort includes a Facebook page, a website and a Twitter account on behalf of Zimmerman.

"We understand that it is unusual for a legal defense to maintain a social media presence on behalf of a defendant, but we also acknowledge that this is a very unusual case," says Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara on the new site, George Zimmerman Legal Case.

The American Bar Association's standards of professional conduct does not deal with social media, a spokesman for the ABA told msnbc.com, but "it's certainly going to be on everyone's radar screen" now.

Stephen A. Saltzburg, a member of the ABA's governing body, the House of Delegates, and former chairman of the ABA's criminal justice section, said "generally speaking, lawyers are not supposed to be making public statements that could compromise a fair trial."

Whether the Zimmerman social media effort will do that would be up to a judge, Saltzburg said.

"Social media is kind of a new thing. I suspect judges in highly publicized cases are going to think about trying to order lawyers and defendants to stay away from social media in order not to taint the jury pool.

http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/zimmermans-lawyer-launches-social-media-campaign-743803

If the judges are also going to admonish the state for its press releases selling its version of events as well as their other efforts to taint the jury pool and bring recrimination upon the accused, then fine. Otherwise this would be unfair bias against the citizen.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 01:32 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Who's brain was beaten? Do you have proof of that? Or is that just your imagination working?
Its what the victim says.
I believe him. He is obviously innocent.





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 03:42 am
@hawkeye10,
You know Hawkeye what the hell does Firefly think that she is gaining by lying about laws that anyone can google?

That along with her silliness of claiming that Zimmerman had used bad judgment in following Trayvon when his judgment or lack of same is completely beside the point of if he had acted in self defense or not in killing Trayvon.

Strange woman that understand in a very solid way that in a sexual assault the victim judgment or lack of same does not factor into the matter but can not seems to understand the concept also apply in this case of assault in regard to him following Trayvon before the assault.

Strange woman our Firefly happen to be.



0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 04:44 am

It seems as conspicuously obvious to me as it possibly can be
that it is perfectly moral, legal, and honorable to follow someone
and to speak to him.

This assertion comes from a man who was shot at,
after having been FOLLOWED for about ten minutes
by the perpetrator, in his car. That experience has had no effect
upon the clarity of my knowledge that following people
is morally and legally OK. I refuse to put tail guns in my cars.





David
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 04:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Im certainly going to sleep much better knowing that.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 04:53 am
@farmerman,
OK, as long as u keep your nocturnal ordnance within reach.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 04:56 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
OK, as long as u keep your nocturnal ordnance within reach
Perhaps you should reword that
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 04:59 am
@farmerman,
Keep your defensive piece within reach
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 05:30 am
Footnote I find it odd and amusing that Firefly can throw the charge of racism in my direction and at the same time can be as please as can be with a so call justice system and very strongly defense it that now had placed a million or so black males into prisons or roughly one in ten of all blacks males in the nation.

Or put another way there are more blacks males now in prisons then was slaves in 1850.

She can be highly amusing at times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/michelle-alexander-more-black-men-in-prison-slaves-1850_n_1007368.html

http://ronmull.tripod.com/racism.html

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 06:03 am
@BillRM,
The blacks NEED strong, viable self defense law
more that the whites do because proportionally,
the blacks more ofen fall victim to more violent crime;
i.e., thay have a more intense need to fight back than the whites do, Zimmy to the contrary notwithstanding.





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 May, 2012 06:36 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David blacks more then most need many changes in the laws and the justice system.

First if we are not going to end the so call war on drugs at least we can end the high prison sentences for crack related crimes compare to cocaine crimes.

Next we can sharply limited the force plea bargainings of the poor in the so call justice system.

For non-violence crimes across the board we should greatly and I mean greatly reduce any prison sentences and find other means of punishments.

Our goal should be to get our prison population down to somewhere near the other advance countries of the world.

I know that would not sit well with the Fireflies of the world where the longer the sentences the better they like it but it still need to be done.

We could offer free higher education to the whole society for what we would save on justice system costs and have a few dimes remaining.
0 Replies
 
 

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