Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

David, please correct me if I am wrong, was Mr. Zimmerman the only neighborhood watch volunteer who felt it necessary to patrol while armed?

I understand there had been burglaries in the neighborhood. Were the burglars, when apprehended, armed? If not, then why the need for a civilian to patrol while armed?

Does the presence of a pistol in this instance follow "The Hammer Rule"?
"Give a guy a hammer, he starts looking for something that needs hammering"
"Give a guy a gun, he starts looking for someone who needs shooting."

Do you seriously believe there would be fewer shooting in America if everyone carried guns?

We already seem to try to settle far too many non-violent situations with the use of deadly force. Want the statistics? I bet I can find them.

Finally, given the relative sizes of the two individuals and their ages, do you seriously think that either of them would have ended up dead if Mr. Zimmerman hadn't been armed?

Joe(How come I can report a crime and Zimmerman cannot?)Nation

Joe(rationalthinker)Nation, You should know by now that David belongs in the 19th century or before when almost all men carried guns.

Guns are for killing, and nothing else. What's wrong with two men fighting only with their fists and feet? They may get a little bruised, and maybe a bloody nose, but not likely to kill each other.

David doesn't believe in fairness; only his own myopia about "carrying a gun is legal in Florida."

Idiocy.

Who can know how many neighbor watch persons do so arm?????????

My wife and I going for walks or shopping ofter carry firearms and it no big deal one way or another and no one know one way or another if we are carrying at any given time.

It just a safety device such as having a fire extinguisher in the house or car or a first aid kit or even a parachute installed on my ultralight.

The sad part is if Zimmerman had not been armed that night he more then likely would had ended either dead or in intensive care and other then maybe a brief mention in the news no one would had known or care.

A safety device? You're willing to shoot and kill somebody for what? A few dollars in your wallet?

You guys are sick in the head!

What are you guys afraid of? The republican boogy man?



You might as well play the lottery, because you have a better chance of "winning" - nothing!

I have no way of knowing that, Joe.




I heard that too.
Maybe that is Y Zimmy was looking around.




I have no information on that; were thay apprehended??

Maybe some were n others were not; I dunno. Anything is possible.



That is to avoid embarrassing surprizes.





Speaking as an American who 's had guns
for well over half a century, I assure u that "he" does not
start looking for that. I have never done that.
Never at any NRA meeting nor any 2nd Amendment Foundation meeting has anyone said he did that.

Its the same as putting a spare tire in your trunk b4 a journey:
u don 't look forward to the opportunity to USE it, but u better have it anyway.

If u went to Vermont (no gun laws there)
and your friend let u look at and heft his new gun in your hand,
wud u look for a citizen to injure with it?? I don 't think u wud. Tell me that I am rong.








Yes. An armed society is a polite society.
(That is probably how it evolved in Japan.)
It is not part of American history that a lot of shootings
happened b4 the advent of gun control,
nor that those shootings now happen in Vermont, Alaska, Arizona etc. where thay have gun freedom.




I am not a statistician.
I have no access to John Lott.
If he were here: I 'd say YES!!!



I cannot judge that.
It is impossible to know the effect of the next impact of the cement
upon Zimmy 's brain, being pounded upon it.
Coronors have found it impossible to ascertain some people's causes of death,
while other people survive horrible multiple injuries. Who knows??
Zimmy had no duty to guess nor to put his fate into the hands of Mr. T.






Zimmy had already summoned police b4 Mr. T began trying to use Zimmy's brain
as a jackhammer for excavation of the sidewalk.

David, There's a huge world of difference between a gun and a spare tire. You probably don't understand the difference, because you're too ignorant.

You'e an attorney without logic. Dangerous to society.

It is beyond your mental ability to see the principle that is common to both.

I suggest that U walk around unarmed for the rest of your life.
I have not chosen to do that.





David

David the fun thing is that millions of Florida citizens are legally arm in public at any given time and it had turn assault/robbery into a game of Russian roulette for those who care to play that game.

There is little likelihood that if you would see the old couple in the corner of Denny or walking to our car that you would guess that they happen to be arm with a 38 and a 357 however we are so arm normally.

We do no expect to need them any more then the fire extinguisher in the truck of the car.

Let see in my 63 years of life I had used a fire extinguisher just three times two time in dealing with a house fire and once a engine fire in a car belonging to someone else, however I still think it is worthwhile to have fire extinguisher at hand.

Thank god neither my wife or I had needed to employed a firearm but they are there for the same reason as a fire extinguishers happen to be.

And without guns, there would be no need for "russian roulette," and everybody lives!

As is typical, your facts are wrong:

Nearly 920,000 active concealed-weapons permits exist for citizens of the Sunshine State, for a population estimated at 19m+. That is far less than your claim of millions...or even ONE million. That fact, in and of itself, is a scarey thought based on what I see of many Floridians.

I'd love to see a poll of Sanford (or any) community whether or not they want to hire a neighborhood watcher who is armed. My wild-ass-guess is that polling now would put the number at less than 1%.

Sorry I do not google every comment first however 900,000 is not a small percent of the total adult population of the state of Florida and I and my wife are two out of the 900,000.

Out of any fairly large gathering the odds are near 100 percents that someone will be legally carrying a firearm.

If give an added level of security in such public places to had arms citizens around.

In fact in the one state of Florida there are more legally arm citizens then the total numbers of police officers in the whole country.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_police_officers_are_employed_in_the_United_states

Answer: Improve
There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

Some states publish statistics indicating how many residents hold permits to carry concealed weapons, and their demographics. For example, Florida has issued 2,031,106 licenses since adopting its law in 1987, and had 843,463 licensed permit holders as of July 31, 2011.[2] Reported permit holders are predominantly male.[3] Some states have reported the number of permit holders increasing over time.[4]

Zimmerman was the only member of the neighbor watch period. No one else in that gated community felt it was necessary to do that sort of thing, or wanted to do it. He was a one-man volunteer neighborhood watch. And those in a neighbor watch should not be armed for that job--Zimmerman carried a gun for his own personal reasons and use.

Leaving race out of it entirely, it was Zimmerman's zealous anti-crime fighting attitude that contributed to his clouded judgment. And neither David nor BillRM seem to realize that Zimmerman's judgment was clouded--he misjudged the situation from the get-go.

I think the scenario probably went something like this...

Armed neighborhood watch captain (of a one-man volunteer watch--he was the only one doing it), and wannabe cop, spots teenage kid who was simply walking around and not doing anything in particular, and decides he looks "suspicious"--like maybe a potential burglar. So, he calls 911, they tell him police will respond, and they instruct him not to follow the kid and just wait for the police. But, this one man anti-crime task force, who has a history of prior criminal run-ins with the law related to his own anger management issues, is obsessed with not losing track of the kid, who is doing nothing more than talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone and trying to get back to where his father is staying. So he impulsively disregards the police dispatcher's instructions and continues to pursue the teen...this sparks a totally needless confrontation, and wannabe cop winds up shooting and killing the teen.

I don't think Zimmerman might have even followed the teen if he wasn't armed. His gun may have empowered him to act impulsively, by following the kid, rather than simply waiting for the police. It was Zimmerman's poor impulse control that put the wheels of a tragedy in motion.

If it hadn't been for the gun neither of them would probably have wound up dead. They might have gotten banged up and bruised in a scuffle, but that probably would have been it. The police were already en route, and neighbors heard screaming--the situation would not have been ignored, the fight would have been broken up. Zimmerman considerably out-weighed Martin, he wasn't unable to fight back, and his injuries afterward did not suggest he was badly beaten or that his head had been repeatedly banged on concrete. The lead investigator saw Zimmerman's injuries, and heard his account, and wasn't convinced by it--he wanted him charged with manslaughter.

Zimmerman might have feared being badly beaten, by a teen who might simply have been trying to defend himself from a nut who was following him, and Zimmerman may have impulsively used his gun to stop a beating rather than because his life was actually in imminent danger.

Zimmerman's version of events hinges on his credibility. And, if his head had been repeatedly banged on concrete, was he taken to an ER to have a CAT-scan--as would be routine with such an injury--to rule out a subdural hematoma or bleeding in the brain, which can result from such an injury? Did he receive any emergency treatment or evaluation for head trauma to back up his story, or that would have been consistent with his story?

And, given the fact that Zimmerman just mis-led his own attorney about his assets and the funds in his legal defense fund, and sat in court at his bail hearing and let his attorney argue to the judge, inaccurately, that he was indigent--despite the fact he had $200,000 in his defense fund--doesn't help him to be viewed as a credible individual.

The gun-toters in this thread seem to have a rather cavalier attitude toward the taking of a life. Their defense of Zimmerman seems more related to their own reasons for carrying guns, and their desire to be able to use them, than the actual evidence, or lack of it, in this case.

By the link below there is roughly 60,000 police officers in the state of Florida compare to 840,000 arm citizens

That mean that there are roughly 14 times more legally arm citizens then there are police officers in the state of Florida.



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_police_officers_are_employed_in_the_United_states

Firefly LOL what an interesting way to spin it how about he was the only citizen that had the time and more important care enough about the welfare of his community to take his time to be part of a crime watch program?

Kind of similar to knocking volunteers firemen by saying only one person in that community saw the need to take part in the area voluntary fire department.

The fact he was the only one that was willing to do so seems to reflect badly on his neighbors far more then on Zimmerman.

Ok back to your spining.............

It kind of hard Firefly to misjudge being knocked down and having your head slammed into the sidewalk.

Lord you are the queen of the spinners.

I plan exactly that; unarmed for life. BTW, I travel around the world, and feel very safe in 99.9% of the countries I visit. I'd probably feel more threat walking in some US cities with high crime rates, but I have often walked alone in South Chicgo without fear.

It means he wasn't the watch captain of an entire group--there was no group, he was the entire neighborhood watch force--whatever "neighborhood watch" would even mean in that situation.

And that doesn't reflect badly on the neighbors, they might not have sensed or felt the need to do what he was doing--either they didn't feel the burglary rate was that high, or they might have preferred to just call 911 on their own if they saw something that concerned them. It is a gated community, you have to hop a fence to get in there, if you don't have the password to get through the gate, so it's not like loads of strangers were ever wandering around the place casing out residences to rob.

The main crime in that community seems to have been burglary, and home alarm/security systems are much better than a neighbor watch--particularly a one-man neighborhood watch--to stop that sort of crime.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop. He was studying criminal justice and wanted to be a police officer. Being able to hold someone for the police, or to be part of an arrest, might have influenced him the night he wound up shooting Martin--except Zimmerman, in his zealousnesses, and impulsiveness, misjudged the situation, Martin had a legitimate right and reason to be in that gated community--and the police dispatcher had told Zimmerman not to follow him. The police didn't feel urgency about the situation, or any urgency about keeping track of Martin until they got there, the urgency was all in Zimmerman's head--it was his poor impulse control that led to a needless death.

I'm just wondering what the numbers are for people going into gated communities without permission? One in a million(s)?