45
   

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 06:49 am
One thing which seems fairly obvious looking at that graph of California prison population from 1950 - 2008 is that human nature did not undergo any sort of a gigantic change from 1982 to 2000. That graph looks like a cliff and you assume it arises from changes in govt. policies and not changes in how people behave or how much crime goes on per capita.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 07:24 am
@gungasnake,
Very interesting however it was not unions or Democrats who started the so call war on drug and begin fulling up the prisons with long long prison sentences and if memory serve me correctly it was Rockefeller in New York all the way back in the 70s.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 08:16 am
@BillRM,
Nixon initiated the WonD but at this point ancient history doesn't help anything. The WonD needs to be ended, and the power of whatever and/or whoever is preventing that from happening needs to be broken. I'm aware that there are other players in the picture but the SEIU does appear to be the biggest player.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 10:35 am
Quote:
Marissa Alexander and the Stand Your Ground Double Standard
BY TRAVIS TOWNSEND, ESQ.

The case of Marissa Alexander, a Florida woman facing 20 years in prison for aggravated assault, is a tragically twisted mirror of the Trayvon Martin case. The court documents for Marissa’s case report that a domestic altercation ensued between Marissa and her husband in her home, that Marissa ran from her husband momentarily to her garage, eventually retrieved her registered firearm then fired a warning shot through the roof of her own house to protect herself.

After her husband fled the house to call the police in response to the warning shot, Marissa was arrested on the scene, processed and charged.

Now: Juxtapose the facts of Marissa’s case with those of the Trayvon Martin case. George Zimmerman, under no duress or threat, took it upon himself to surveil Trayvon, pursued Trayvon against the instructions of a police dispatcher, shot and killed Trayvon and was not arrested or charged with any crime for more than 46 days following the killing.

The inconsistent treatment of George Zimmerman and Marissa Alexander is a terrible commentary on the fairness of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law and its effectiveness to protect individuals who use lawful force in self-defense pursuant to its provisions.

At the scene of Marissa Alexander’s incident, she invoked Florida’s Stand Your Ground law by giving her account of the event. Section 776.112 of the statute states that a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to herself.

Section 776.032 states that a person who uses force as permitted in Section 776.012 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution (which includes arrest).

Marissa informed the law enforcement agents on the scene that she feared for her life. She provided further context for the officers by informing them that her husband had a history of abuse, and that she obtained a protective order against him that same year in connection with an assault that resulted in her hospitalization.

Despite Marissa’s account and evidence of her husband’s abuse that could have easily been confirmed by the officers on the scene, the officers proceeded to arrest her.

By contrast, George Zimmerman avoided arrest for 46 days simply by stating that he was forced to shoot and kill Trayvon after Trayvon allegedly jumped on him out of nowhere and physically assaulted him. Further, but for public outrage and activists shining the spotlight on Trayvon Martin’s death, it is almost certain that George Zimmerman would never have been arrested at all.

The disparity in treatment between Marissa Alexander and George Zimmerman by law enforcement is glaring, and its absurdity is undeniable. Beyond the discriminatory application of the law by the police is the misapplication of the law’s immunity provision by the judicial officer presiding over Marissa’s Stand Your Ground hearing. At the hearing to determine if Marissa did indeed have immunity under the statute, her counsel presented the sworn statement of her husband confirming that he was the aggressor and threatened to kill her. In ruling that immunity did not apply, the judge cited that Marissa had opportunities to exit the house and escape the fight. One very controversial aspect of the Florida statute is that it expressly states there is no duty to retreat. Whether you agree that there should always be a duty to avoid physical harm and death, if at all possible, during an altercation, or it is your position that a person should never have to take ownership for the safety of another who created the perilous situation, there can be no dispute that the law, as enacted does not require Marissa to have escaped her own house. Marissa had a strong case for immunity at the scene and at her hearing; however, she was unfairly denied. Which begs the question, why?

Opponents and proponents of the Florida statute alike, must ask why the law as it currently reads, was successfully used by George Zimmerman, but was unsuccessfully invoked by Marissa Alexander. Supporters of George Zimmerman and proponents of the Florida statute should be up in arms on Marissa’s behalf. The incident for which she was convicted is text book self-defense, expressly permitted by the statute, yet she is unjustly facing 20 years of incarceration for defending herself against spousal abuse. If the law is inapplicable in Marissa’s case, how much protection can others facing a life or death situation expect if they stand their ground?

Meanwhile, opponents of the Stand Your Ground law should be vigilant in investigating such cases to determine what patterns of discrimination exist. By highlighting such inequities, the case for examining Stand Your Ground is strengthened. Good laws applied unequally cannot go unchallenged. It is essential that bad laws applied unfairly receive even deeper scrutiny. Parties on all sides would do justice to these cases by seeking congruent administration of the law. Marissa has yet to be sentenced and post-trial motions are being considered. Her counsel is seeking a new trial. If she is ultimately sentenced to 20 years in prison, everyone loses as incongruent administration of the law cuts against our sense of racial and gender equality.

TRAVIS TOWNSEND, ESQ. is Managing Partner at Atlanta-based Townsend & Lockett, LLC and author of When the Cops Come Knockin’.
http://politic365.com/2012/04/27/marissa-alexander-and-the-stand-your-ground-double-standard/
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 10:56 am
@firefly,
LOL and I mean LOL an act that is completely legal of following someone on a damn public streets somehow in some manner open one to an assault with deadly intend.

A 911 operator had no repeat no legal power to order Zimmerman to do or not to do a damn thing and is not a police officer.

Under no repeat no theory of law I ever hear of does someone following another person give a license to Trayvon to turn and attack Zimmerman.

Now if Trayvon had broken off his attack and begin running away then Zimmerman would had lost his right to fire the gun but as far as we now know Zimmerman life was in danger at the moment he fire the weapon.

The only criminal in this story is Trayvon no matter how you try to spin it.

Zimmerman at no point had done one illegal act from following Trayvon to firing the shot that kill Trayvon.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 11:04 am
@BillRM,
The very fact that Trayvon attack and try to kill Zimmerman for following him is 100 percents no question about it proof that Zimmerman was right in his judgment that Trayvon needed to had an eye kept on him and have the police check him out.

A would be murderer was walking the streets that night but it was not Zimmerman.

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 11:20 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Speaking of funds being generated by the public over this matter I would love to get the back story of Trayvon's mother trademarking his name and the saying appearing on tee shirts and coffee mugs ETC.

They say they have raised $100K so far, which will go to the foundation they have set up and presumably will run. Their sons death is being used to kick start their new careers in philanthropy it seems.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 11:26 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
The very fact that Trayvon attack and try to kill Zimmerman


This is assertion, not established fact. According to Florida law though it never needs to be fact, all the judge needs to conclude is that it is more likely than not that George was defending himself from an assault from Trayvon to legally justify throwing the case out.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 11:35 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The case of Marissa Alexander, a Florida woman facing 20 years in prison for aggravated assault, is a tragically twisted mirror of the Trayvon Martin case. The court documents for Marissa’s case report that a domestic altercation ensued between Marissa and her husband in her home, that Marissa ran from her husband momentarily to her garage, eventually retrieved her registered firearm then fired a warning shot through the roof of her own house to protect herself


Relationship violence and stranger violence are two very different animals. I happen to think that they are not treated differently enough by the law an the know-it-alls, so while I have a multitude of complaints against the justice system the fact that Zimmerman and Alexander were not treated the same by police is not one of them. We also must keep in mind that Alexander was very uncooperative with police where all George did against the police was to not take the advise of a 911 operator.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 11:49 am
@hawkeye10,

Quote:
The case of Marissa Alexander, a Florida woman facing 20 years in prison for aggravated assault, is a tragically twisted mirror of the Trayvon Martin case. The court documents for Marissa’s case report that a domestic altercation ensued between Marissa and her husband in her home, that Marissa ran from her husband momentarily to her garage, eventually retrieved her registered firearm then fired a warning shot through the roof of her own house to protect herself
Firing warning shots thru your own roof,
is a terrible idea -- very, very bad.

hawkeye10 wrote:
Relationship violence and stranger violence are two very different animals. I happen to think that they are not treated differently enough by the law an the know-it-alls, so while I have a multitude of complaints against the justice system the fact that Zimmerman and Alexander were not treated the same by police is not one of them. We also must keep in mind that Alexander was very uncooperative with police where all George did against the police was to not take the advise of a 911 operator.
Do u advise people to offer statements to police ??





David
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 11:56 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Do u advise people to offer statements to police ??


I advise people to not say anything until they have a lawyer if they might be guilty of a serious crime. I also advise that pissing off the police is a fast lane to arrest and sometimes a beating. In this case Alexander barricaded herself in her home and thus acted guilty and caused the police lots of problems, where as George was fully cooperative with police and asserted his innocence....of course the police are going to treat them differently.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 11:59 am
@hawkeye10,
DAVID wrote:
Do u advise people to offer statements to police ??
hawkeye10 wrote:
I advise people to not say anything until they have a lawyer
if they might be guilty of a serious crime.
What about the innocent ??
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 12:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
That's what I've been saying all along; the trial should be left to the jury, the attorneys, and the judge.

Making assumptions is just plain stupid!

But BillRM is very good at being stupid. Smile

We don't need a legal system, he wants to decide all cases on his own, even in the absence of all the facts--he's the sole orbiter of justice. Laughing

In this particular case, Zimmerman's own attorney, Mark O'Mara, has said he's not even sure that Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law even applies in this situation, and other attorneys have said that as well, although other self defense laws might apply, or they might not. BillRM, of course, knows better than the defense attorney in this matter. He knows exactly what happened between Zimmerman and Martin, exactly which laws apply, etc. and he's not even aware that all he's doing is speculating. He's not able to distinguish between his own fantasies and reality.

It's the ambiguities in this case that have helped to fuel the controversy--if it was clear-cut, one way or the other, there would be no controversy. It's speculation on both sides right now in the court of public opinion. The only thing that's not speculation is the fact that George Zimmerman killed someone. The circumstances of that homicide are not clear, and whether that homicide was a legally justified act of self defense is not clear, which is precisely why this case must be adjudicated in court.

If this case is not dismissed at a pre-trial hearing,which would probably send poor BillRM off the deep end, it will probably be at least a year before it gets to trial. So, for the next year, given his obsessive-compulsive tendencies, BillRM will go on and on and on, mindlessly prattling his same speculations, over and over and over again, never realizing that just because he thinks something doesn't mean it's true, and never realizing that he doesn't have a complete picture of what happened before George Zimmerman fired his gun. In BillRM's rather narrow little mind, if Trayvon Martin wound up dead, he deserved to wind up dead, and he will just continue to voice that view, over and over, for another year, even if he is the only one still posting in this thread.

As I said, he's very good at being stupid.

BillRM's amusing to watch for a while, but then he just rapidly becomes quite repetitive and boring, and we are already at that point.

This legal case is quite interesting, and watching it play out should be interesting. BillRM's comments are anything but...same old, same old.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 12:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
all the judge needs to conclude is that it is more likely than not that George was defending himself from an assault from Trayvon to legally justify throwing the case out.
so

The only problem is that judges in Florida stand for election so there could be some extra legal pressure place on the Judge.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 12:26 pm
@BillRM,
So, your assumption is that Florida judges are influenced by the elections.

What a ****'n dork!~
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 12:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
So, your assumption is that Florida judges are influenced by the elections.


That's certainly not an unwarranted assumption, CI.

Electing judges is an excellent way to adversely affect legal systems.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 12:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye there is a Florida lawyer who is an expert on guns cases and had written the standard book on Florida handguns laws and conceal carry.

He is even nice enough to send you an updated book for free if you send in the old one with a mailing stamp return envelope.

In any case, his advice is that in a self defense shooting you tell the police that you was in fear for your life and needed to fire your gun in self defense however you are too emotional upset now to make anymore statements and also wish to talk to your lawyer and have him with you for further interviews.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 12:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
So, your assumption is that Florida judges are influenced by the elections.
ng
What a ****'n dork!~


I assume that by placing a black robe on does not removed a person from the human race and such concerns as keeping the ability to support his or her family.

That concern is the reason why federal judges are appointed for life see the Federal papers for more details.

To sum up if I am a fuk'n dork so are the creators of the Federal Constitution.


0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 12:49 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Electing judges is an excellent way to adversely affect legal systems.


It's also an excellent way to positively affect legal systems.

Circuit court and county judges in Florida hold office for 6 years.
In my experience here, the public's memory doesn't outlast their terms.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 02:08 pm
@panzade,
Quote:
Circuit court and county judges in Florida hold office for 6 years.
In my experience here, the public's memory doesn't outlast their terms.


Not true in a few cases I can think of and how far into the term will be the "lucky" judge that get to have the self defense hearing be is unknown at this point.
0 Replies
 
 

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