45
   

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2012 07:38 pm
@parados,
Sturgis wrote:
ABC, CBS and NBC all had lead stories during that time on the nightly news and either you are aware of it or you are completely ignorant of current events,


parados wrote:
They all had lead stories about how Sharpton and Jackson were calling for riots? That I would have heard about.

Oh.. wait.. that wasn't what Bill claimed? Or was it?



Now you are just being obtuse.

You had indicated not seeing Sharpton or Jackson on a national front. That, you waste of sperm and egg, was the subject. If you now choose to make it about riots, then that is a separate matter and at no point have I stated that Sharpton or Jackson was calling for people to riot.

As I indicated, you will spin the story in whatever way you desire, either to gain favor or because you don't know any better. Maybe it's a twisted combination of both.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2012 09:55 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
I am sure that the Jews who was beaten and the family of the Jews who were killed and the driver who needed to leave the US all feel that way about Sharpton influence being a positive social influence.

Your knowledge of the Crown Heights situation of 20 years ago is as distorted and inaccurate as your thinking on most issues. There was rioting going on, and a Jewish student had been murdered, before Sharpton even showed up at the scene in Crown Heights.

Sharpton did not cause the rioting in Crown Heights, nor was he responsible for any of the violence, nor is he anti-Semitic. And none of what took place in Crown Heights two decades ago is at all relevant to the killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman.

Sharpton's message, "No justice, no peace," has always referred to peaceful organized protests--he organizes demonstrations and marches--he does not advocate violence. Protests and marches are, in fact, the orderly alternative to riots and violence as ways of expressing anger or outrage, particularly regarding injustices in the law enforcement and criminal justice systems which do affect, and concern, and impact, the black community.

But, just as you've maliciously and wrongly labeled Trayvon Martin a "hoodlum"--a violent young criminal--you are equally wrongly accusing Sharpton of threatening rioting and violence regarding the Zimmerman matter. You just never stop trying to portray the black people in this situation as menacing, and violent, and out of control--when, in fact, the only person who was demonstrably violent and out of control was George Zimmerman, because he became so obsessed with pursuing a black teen, a teen who was minding his own business and not bothering anyone, that he couldn't wait for the police to show up and he wound up killing the kid.

The outrage that Zimmerman wasn't arrested was fully justified. And that outrage wasn't just coming from within the black community--it was coming from all quarters. And those people knew that if Trayvon Martin had been white, his killer would have been arrested on the spot. Sharpton was right to demand justice--to call for the arrest of George Zimmerman--to call for the circumstances of this killing to be examined in a court of law.

If your mind wasn't so clouded by your own racial biases, you'd understand what those protests were really about, and why this case set off such a firestorm of protest, and why this killing cried out for legal scrutiny and a legally determined verdict. You really don't understand any of it.

hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2012 10:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
During the time Zimmerman was in hiding, his detractors defined him as a vigilante who had decided Martin was suspicious merely because he was black. After Zimmerman was finally arrested on a charge of second-degree murder more than six weeks after the shooting, prosecutors portrayed him as a violent and angry man who disregarded authority by pursuing the 17-year-old.
But a more nuanced portrait of Zimmerman has emerged from a Reuters investigation into Zimmerman's past and a series of incidents in the community in the months preceding the Martin shooting.
Based on extensive interviews with relatives, friends, neighbors, schoolmates and co-workers of Zimmerman in two states, law enforcement officials, and reviews of court documents and police reports, the story sheds new light on the man at the center of one of the most controversial homicide cases in America.
The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.
A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.
Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.
"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin..
.
.
.
EMMANUEL BURGESS - SETTING THE STAGE
On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.
"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.
On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.
Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on February 2.
Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations.
Three days after Burgess was arrested, Zimmerman's grandmother was hospitalized for an infection, and the following week his father was also admitted for a heart condition. Zimmerman spent a number of those nights on a hospital room couch.
Ten days after his father was hospitalized, Zimmerman noticed another young man in the neighborhood, acting in a way he found familiar, so he made another call to police.
"We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy," Zimmerman said, as Trayvon Martin returned home from the store.
The last time Zimmerman had called police, to report Burgess, he followed protocol and waited for police to arrive. They were too late, and Burgess got away.
This time, Zimmerman was not so patient, and he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin.


http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-prelude-shooting-194235114.html;_ylt=A2KJNF.W9JhPTn4AouzQtDMD


I find it very telling that a snip from the most exhaustive journalism effort to date into what happened that day rates a -1 score an A2k, as well as no comment.

Robert, are you paying attention?? You fucked up.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2012 10:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawk, Nobody "fucked up." People are trying to provide input into a case where no one really has full info. There's an obvious danger in that, and most have made assumptions about the when, why's, where, and therefores.

Garbage in, garbage out. It's that simple. Mr. Green 2 Cents
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2012 10:52 pm
Quote:
Donations pour in to Trayvon Martin's killer
CNN Wire Staff
April 26, 2012

(CNN) -- The lawyer for the neighborhood watch leader who fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, said Thursday that his client has received about $200,000 from supporters.

Orlando lawyer Mark O'Mara told CNN's "AC360" that George Zimmerman told him Wednesday of the donations as they were trying to shut down his Internet presence to avoid concerns about possible impersonators and problems with his Twitter and Facebook accounts.

"He asked me what to do with his PayPal accounts and I asked him what he was talking about," O'Mara told Anderson Cooper. "And he said those were the accounts that had the money from the website he had. And there was about 200, $204,000 that had come in to date."

O'Mara had said earlier this month that he believed Zimmerman had no money. "I think he's indigent for costs," he said, adding that Zimmerman's relatives had few assets.

Zimmerman, 28, was released Monday on $150,000 bail, 10% of which his family put up to secure his release. He is accused of second-degree murder in the February 26 death of Martin, who was African-American. Critics have accused him of racially profiling Martin and unjustly killing him. He has said he shot in self-defense.

Asked whether knowledge of the money might have made a difference to Judge Kenneth Lester Jr., who presided at Zimmerman's bond hearing, O'Mara said, "It might have."

O'Mara continued, "I'm certainly going to disclose it to the court tomorrow -- coincidentally, we have a hearing."

He said he was prepared to "deal with any fallout," but predicted Lester would not feel misled. "I told him what I knew at the time, which was exactly what I was aware of."

The money has been placed in a secure account since O'Mara learned about it, he said, adding, "Nobody's touching it until we figure out how to handle it."

But criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos said Lester might not react benignly. "I know a lot of judges who would remand the guy back into custody immediately," he said. "If you've got more money stashed in an account and you could just pay the bond and be gone, that gives a lot of judges concern."

Though the account has been closed, O'Mara said he intends to open a legal defense fund for Zimmerman. "I've had dozens, hundreds actually, of people wanting to donate," he said.

O'Mara, who said he charges $400 per hour for family law cases, estimated Zimmerman's defense costs could reach $1 million. "You can really go through a lot of money on a case like this, with the intensity of it," he said...
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html


I watched Anderson Cooper's interview with Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, tonight, and the revelation about the amount in Zimmerman's legal defense fund says a lot about George Zimmerman's credibility and honesty--he's a liar.

Zimmerman told O'Mara, who had offered to represent him pro bono if necessary, that he really had no money and that there was only a very small amount in his legal defense fund. And I had read a few days ago that O"Mara was considering asking the court to have his client declared indigent so the state could foot the bill for the legal expenses. And Zimmerman's apparent lack of assets was a factor the court took into consideration when setting his bail amount.

Now it emerges that there is over $200,000 in Zimmerman's legal defense fund--and Zimmerman knew he had that amount all along--meaning he lied to his lawyer and he knowingly allowed his lawyer to misrepresent his financial situation to the court. I'm starting to understand why Zimmerman's first attorneys in this case dropped him as a client. This man doesn't play it straight even with his own lawyer, and he's now put his lawyer in a difficult position with the judge since the judge likely heard this news on CNN tonight and can't be too happy that he was deliberately mislead about matters that might have affected his bail decision.

It will be interesting to see how the judge reacts to this revelation and whether it will cause him to reconsider the amount of Zimmerman's bail.

This news doesn't help Zimmerman's image in terms of his credibility.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 12:21 am
@firefly,
Quote:
This news doesn't help Zimmerman's image in terms of his credibility


George told his lawyer the truth, and claimed to be willing to do with the $200K what ever his lawyer said, there is no problem here. There is every reason to think that he can raise what ever amount of money that the wants/needs to because a lot of people think that George is fighting for them, and they want to see him win, and know that in our "justice" system money helps a lot. It is cool that the lawyer is willing to work for free, but he will get paid, most likely his entire standard fee.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 12:23 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

hawk, Nobody "fucked up." People are trying to provide input into a case where no one really has full info. There's an obvious danger in that, and most have made assumptions about the when, why's, where, and therefores.

Garbage in, garbage out. It's that simple. Mr. Green 2 Cents


The Reuters piece is the best info we have to date, but A2K does not want to talk about it. Dont you wonder why??
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 12:30 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Thursday night, Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, told CNN’s Anderson Cooper that at first he had been told that Zimmerman had two accounts: one with $700, another with about $2,000.

But while trying to shut down all of Zimmerman’s Internet presence, his client asked him what to do with his PayPal accounts.

Days before Corey filed her charges, a website called TheRealGeorgeZimmerman.com sprang up. The website, since removed, said visitors could use a PayPal link to donate money to Zimmerman.

O’Mara told Cooper that the account contained $200,000 and $204,000.

Asked by Cooper whether a higher bond might have been set for Zimmerman if that amount had been known, O’Mara said “maybe.” He added that he would let the court know officially about the money.

But, O’Mara added, that he’s not sure that Zimmerman even realized the money was available to him. After Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester set bond at $150,000, it was Zimmerman’s family who cobbled together the money for his release.

O’Mara said he does intend to create a legal defense fund for Zimmerman, and has already received checks from people who want to help

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/26/2770539/zimmermans-lawyer-donations-to.html#storylink=cpy


So much for Firefly's assertion that O"Mara likely feels lied to by George......If history is any judge not a single word she says she be believed.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 02:38 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You don't need to remind me that I'm ignorant about many things. So, what's your point?

That you have no understanding of violence from guns in this country?
Violence cannot and it does not
come from guns, nor from cars, nor from knives, nor from the sidewalks of Florida.

It can come from men who USE those tools.
The actual WEAPON is the human mind;
the guns or knives, etc. are only the outward manifestation.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 02:49 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
David everyone is suppose to be so afraid of being label a racist
that such a charge is suppose to silent them or at least discredit them.
YES. That accusation is intended to be an instrument of intimidation, for the purpose of achieving thought control.

We need to have the courage to stand up for freedom of opinion.




BillRM wrote:
Yet people like Sharpton who had a long history of promoting hate and violence between the races
for his own reasons and benefits is to be given a free pass due to their black skin color.
That 's how he makes a living; it seems to work.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 03:20 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
George Zimmerman should have been arrested for killing Trayvon Martin.
If it ever happens that YOU,
(or someone for whom u care) barely escape after fending off
predatory violence, killing the perpetrator,
and then you get financially wiped out by lawyers' fees,
even if u WIN both civil and criminal cases against u,
then I wonder if u 'll be as eager to undermine considerations of self defense.
Mr. Z did us all a favor; we are all safer now, for his assistance.
Mr. T is no longer around to bash our brains against the cement sidewalk.

Every citizen, looking forward into the future
shud anticipate the (at least theoretical) possibility
that he will need to defend himself with counter-violence
that his predator might not survive.
If that were to actually happen, shud he want himself to be
prosecuted and persecuted, especially if the perp were a "disadvantaged youth"??

It behooves each citizen of every State
to demand of our legislators good statutes
whereby we will remain IMMUNE from either civil
or criminal litigation resulting from the exercise of our rights of self defense.
We owe it to ourselves to ask (prospectively):
how can government make me more comfortable and better protected
in the event that I violently defend myself, resulting in the death of the bad guy??





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 04:04 am
@firefly,
It is nice to know that Zimmerman will have the resource to fight these charges in fact if the website come up once more I will donate a few dimes myself as people should not be wipe out financially by being charge with a crime no matter what the outcome of the court case happen to be.

In the mean time Trayvon's mother had trademark his name and the sayings that had been appearing of tee shirts and coffee cups and so on.

Only in American can having a son who try to kill a crime watch volunteer can end up making you rich by ways of tee shirts Razz

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 04:27 am
@hawkeye10,
You know Hawkeye everyone who is a Florida citizen and with special note of CCW holders have a stake in the outcome of this case.

I would not for example wish my wife to be charge with a killing after being knocked down and having some hoodlum trying to kill her by driving her head into the sidewalk.

As firefly stated if my wife had shot and kill a poor 'unarmed' man trying to kill her in that manner she should be arrested and charge with murder.

I am feeling bad that I had miss the chance for now to donate funds to Zimmerman defense fund.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 04:48 am
@firefly,
Sorry but he did increase the tension that the black mayor at the time was trying to cool down and stated that we should not condemn the young men rioting.

Anyone who would lead a march carrying signs no justice no peace when innocent Jews was being beaten for the crime of being Jewish by your time table is maybe you damn idea of a good influence but it is not mine.

Once more do you have German blood in your veins?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 05:06 am
@firefly,
Quote:
But, just as you've maliciously and wrongly labeled Trayvon Martin a "hoodlum"--a violent young criminal--


Anyone who would knocked another human being down and try to bash that person brain out of the sidewalk that the wounds on Zimmerman support happening is a hoodlum no matter what his race happen to be.

Anyone who would promote a riot that resulted in death and lessor harms to completely innocent men and then supported the rioters with his words is an asshole no matter what his race happen to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton#Crown_Heights_Riot

Nothing like trying to restart a riot now is there!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton#Comments_on_Jews

Sharpton marched through Crown Heights and in front of "770", shortly after the riot, with about 400 protesters (who chanted "Whose streets? Our streets!" and "No justice, no peace!"), in spite of Mayor David Dinkins's attempts to keep the march from happening.[35]

Comments on Jews During the Crown Heights Riot, Sharpton (who arranged a rally in Crown Heights after Cato's death[31]) has been seen by some commentators as inflaming tensions by making remarks that included "If the Jews want to get it on, tell them to pin their yarmulkes back and come over to my house".[57]





BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 06:08 am
Is it just me or are others shock that Firefly would support a man that aided and promoted a Jewish pogram?

Considering him a wonderful influence on society yet!!!!!!!!!

A man that libel completely innocents men by labeling them rapists and then when the facts came out would not withdraw his charges.

A man that as a result was sue and lost in the courts for libel and then had his supporter pay off the judgment.

A man who marched ten thousands follower into a very small town over the issue of charging one of a group of hoodlums with criminal records under the hate crime laws for assaulting a white teenager from behind and knocking him out for the sole reason that he was white!

Oh this hoodlum was at the time was under probation for attacking a female member of his own household.



0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 07:45 am
@BillRM,
Bill: First, I want you to know that I've never like Rev. Al very much, but he's mellowed in recent years, I still don't like him, but he gets to have his say. meh.

Next, there is this: You buy all of Zimmerman story. I don't.
Quote:
Anyone who would knocked another human being down and try to bash that person brain out of the sidewalk that the wounds on Zimmerman support happening is a hoodlum no matter what his race happen to be.


Maybe Zimmerman dropped something and it slid under a concrete park bench and, in his hurry to retrieve it, he mis-judged the height of the bench seat and cracked his head on it as he tried to stand up.

Unbelievable, except I've done that very thing.

There's lots of ways for lots of things to happen on a dark, rainy night.

Joe(I bled like a stuck pig)Nation
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 08:45 am
@Joe Nation,
And, another thing...about what exactly is the appearance of a cut on the back of Zimmerman's head proof? A reason to commit murder? Hardly. Those people who want to argue in defense of Zimmerman without definitive proof (non-existant video) of what transpired that night, seem to me to be quite disingenuous.

If he got a cut that bled and you have no proof of what and how it happened, then you still have a legitimate case of some sort against Zimmerman on either 2nd degree murder or, at the very least, manslaughter. The courts will decide. All else is empty speculation and bloviation.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 08:54 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Donations pour in to Trayvon Martin's killer


Have you read about the $500,000 from the Murder Inc. Foundation in Detroit (the group they used to call the "Purple Gang")?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2012 09:01 am
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:
And, another thing...about what exactly is the appearance of a cut
on the back of Zimmerman's head proof?
A violent attack.


Ragman wrote:
A reason to commit murder? Hardly.
Right; justifiable homicide.



Ragman wrote:
Those people who want to argue in defense of Zimmerman without definitive proof (non-existant video) of what transpired that night, seem to me to be quite disingenuous.

If he got a cut that bled and you have no proof of what and how it happened, then you still have a legitimate case of some sort against Zimmerman on either 2nd degree murder or, at the very least, manslaughter. The courts will decide. All else is empty speculation and bloviation.
For what reason shud Zimmy be arrested???
Merely because he killed Mr. T ?
That 's all ?





David
 

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