Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

@snood,

Don't feed the troll.

@RST,

RST wrote:

Don't feed the troll.

aka dont even try to defend your position when it is clear that your position is the losing one...... just label the opposition "trash", walk away, and pray to your Gods that the audience is too stupid to figure out what just happened.

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@BillRM,

Bill, let's discuss the "evidence" that you've been trumpeting around for some time now.

BillRM wrote:

There was not a damn mark on Trayvon body but for that one gun shot that ended the attack.

Let's take into account Zimmerman's account of the story:

Quote:

He said he told Martin, "I don't have a problem," but the youth replied, "Now you have a problem," and attacked him. He said he fell backward after being punched in the nose, and "he was whaling on my head."

Merrian Webster wrote:

whale
transitive verb
whaledwhal·ing
Definition of WHALE
1: lash, thrash
2: to strike or hit vigorously
3: to defeat soundly

Now if what you said was true, and "there was not a damn mark on Trayvon body but for that one gun shot that ended the attack" then Trayvon is not guilty. If Trayvon did beat Zimmerman down then his knuckles, then his knuckles and generally his hand would be bruised and cut up very badly, as the human head isn't exactly a bag of marshmallows.

Nevertheless I took the liberty to find Trayvon's autopsy report:
http://docs.docstoc.com/pdf/12816778/0f9a1354-4b3d-45bc-8379-2b3b74c9a1e9.pdf

On page 3, besides the gun wound, there is a 1/4 X 1/8 inch small abrasion on the left fourth finger.
On page 7 or the last page of the report, it shows that this 1/4 X 1/8 inch small abrasion is on the base of the fourth finger, and not on the knuckles.
This small abrasion isn't likely caused by a "whaling" as it'd be hard to to punch someone to only cause damage to your base of the ring finger while avoiding any damage on the part of the knuckle of the longer middle finger, where such part of the knuckle has a more prominent protrusion while forming a fist.

If Zimmerman was whaled, as he claimed to have happened, then Trayvon Martin's autopsy report would have reported numerous cuts and bruises on the knuckles and fingers for both hands, or at least on Trayvon's dominant hand.
ON a side note, it's interesting to see some news reports suggesting that the scrape on Traywon's Martin's left hand is on the knuckle rather than at the base of the finger. The discrepancy in the actual evidence paper work and news article is, interestingly, terrible reporting.

After looking at the autopsy of Trayvon, and also reading reports of how he kept his blood from bleeding all over himself or Trayvon, I can imagine Zimmerman beating himself up in the face (by guilt or by some cunning idea to frame Trayvon or a mixture of both ideas) before the police arrived, and then spinning a tale to suit his interests and prove his "innocence."

1 Reply

@snood,

Quote:

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Re: hawkeye10 (Post 5192248)
hawkeye10 wrote:

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Well, I don't think he called him a troll. He just said he was trolling on this thread.
kindly parse the words in such a way that gets you from point A to point B....

my english knowledge has it that trolling is the behavior of a troll, full stop.

Okay. I'll play....

I don't think everyone who technically commits a crime can be characterized as a criminal. Hence, someone can perform a behavior - like trolling (no crime, but I just used 'crime' to make a point) - and yet not actually fit the profile of what is commonly referred to as a troll. So... MM, in not familiarizing himself with the pertinent facts and history that would allow him to make a meaningful contribution to the discussion, and still offering nonsequitor 'opinions', is trolling, but not a troll.

Hummm...if that last sentence had ended "...but not necessarily a troll"...I would agree with it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
Re: hawkeye10 (Post 5192248)
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Well, I don't think he called him a troll. He just said he was trolling on this thread.
kindly parse the words in such a way that gets you from point A to point B....

my english knowledge has it that trolling is the behavior of a troll, full stop.

Okay. I'll play....

I don't think everyone who technically commits a crime can be characterized as a criminal. Hence, someone can perform a behavior - like trolling (no crime, but I just used 'crime' to make a point) - and yet not actually fit the profile of what is commonly referred to as a troll. So... MM, in not familiarizing himself with the pertinent facts and history that would allow him to make a meaningful contribution to the discussion, and still offering nonsequitor 'opinions', is trolling, but not a troll.

Hummm...if that last sentence had ended "...but not necessarily a troll"...I would agree with it.

Yeah, I guess that would've been more accurate.

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Huh? Mysteryman gave his opinion from what he'd read or heard, which I take it wasn't a full body of everything ever said or printed on the subject, but enough that he could give his impression at this point.

This is not trolling.
Look at the thread title again, folks.

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@RST,

Quote:

After looking at the autopsy of Trayvon, and also reading reports of how he kept his blood from bleeding all over himself or Trayvon, I can imagine Zimmerman beating himself up in the face...

Beside the lack of any notable significant injuries on Martin's hands, and the lack of Zimmerman's DNA on his hands, Zimmerman's face showed no signs of injury beside a blow to his nose--there is simply no evidence that Zimmerman had been beaten in the face beyond a punch to his nose. In addition, there were only two minor tiny scrapes on the back of Zimmerman's head, which do not support his account that his head was repeatedly pounded into the pavement by Martin.

Zimmerman didn't beat himself in the face, but Martin didn't beat him in the face either. He wasn't beaten up period.

In addition, the friend Martin was speaking to on his cell phone when the confrontation began said the last thing she heard Martin say was, "Get off of me," which suggests that Zimmerman might have grabbed him in some way, perhaps by the arm, or the sleeve of his hoodie, and, if true, that would have been sufficient provocation for Martin to defensively punch him in the nose, particularly since Zimmerman had been following him in the dark and Martin had no idea what this man was after or what he might do to him.

An essential legal element in this case is consideration of the possibility that it was Martin who was defending himself from Zimmerman, because of Zimmerman's provocative actions--and that is likely the case that the state will make.

The Zimmerman cheerleading squad is disregarding all of the evidence that doesn't support his account or, rather childishly claiming that such evidence doesn't exist. Beside the inconsistencies in Zimmerman's version of events, there is evidence to contradict his account, as well as a lack of evidence to support it.

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@hawkeye10,

Then you are are a criminal hawkeye. No question about it. You will always be a criminal.

And I guess it makes Zimmerman a criminal. I guess you criminals need to stick together and declare each other innnocent.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Then you are are a criminal hawkeye. No question about it. You will always be a criminal.

Me too! Me too! I've broken traffic laws more than once! I'm a criminal too!!

1 Reply

@firefly,

The last paragraph was just me thinking out loud due to the inconsistencies in the lies voiced by Zimmerman.
Now that I look at the autopsy report again, he was shot in heart, IN THE HEART!!
This leads me to believe that Zimmerman knew exactly what he was doing when he aimed for the heart. He could not afford for Trayvon to live and testify against him, possibly sending Zimmerman to prison for life for a hate crime. And according to the statments Zimmerman made Martin was on top of Zimmerman at the time of the shooting. Entrance wound was left of center with fragments found in right lung. it seems consistent with firing the weapon from his right side while on the ground.
So why doesn't Zimmerman have blood on his clothing? How could he shoot Trayvon directly over him and not have ANY blood splatter on him?
What is puzzling to me is I read a statement by Zimmerman to police that said that after he shot Trayvon - that Trayvon “turned and then fell to the ground” - face down - and at that point Zimmerman lunged to get on top of Trayvon to continue the fight - however Trayvon was dead. This “Turned and then fell to the ground” part of the statement makes me think they were standing up.

I find Zimmerman's lack of defensive wounds or any reported mention of fighting back problematic. It seems that, in that situation, one would instinctively do one of three things: one would attempt to protect the head from being damaged against the pavement or one would attempt to push the attacker away or injure the attacker. Drawing a firearm seems like an action one takes when there is a lull in activity and there is a bit of distance between victim and attacker. It doesn't make sense to me, as it has been reported by Zimmerman. Looking forward to hearing his testimony, testimony from Martin's girlfriend, and the line of questioning for Zimmerman about that testimony in the trial.

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@ossobuco,

No, the only trolling done in this instance here was hawker, deliberately being obnoxious with his dramatic wail from woe of drewdad calling someone's posted opinion as trolling to dismiss what they had to say. All this to make itself the main topic being discussed. What an attention whore.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Mysteryman gave his opinion displayed his ignorance, and ignored all of the previous posts on the subject, and then posted something inflammatory.

Fixed it for you.

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@firefly,

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Zimmerman didn't beat himself in the face, but Martin didn't beat him in the face either. He wasn't beaten up period.

LOL...........................................................................

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This leads me to believe that Zimmerman knew exactly what he was doing when he aimed for the heart.

My my what clear thinking while being pounded and did Trayvon had a nice sign on his chest over his heart to allow Zimmerman to know that his one shot would hit the man heart not missing it or not bouncing off a rib for example?

You are getting very silly Firefly.............have you ever fired a firearm in your life as to think what you are saying is at all likely your knowledge of firearms seem to approach zero.

Oh in self defense training you are told to placed at least two bullets in the center of mass and in the similar case of a cop being attacked and taken to the ground by an unarmed assault the cop did do the standard double tap.

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@BillRM,

Seeing that the second part is addressed to me...

I am aware of the fact that only in a life or death situation can Police aim to kill. But there is no proof from Zimmerman’s injuries that he had been beaten unmercifully to the point where a life or death scenario had presented itself. In my high school, I have seen girls come out of a fight with worse injuries.
Now look at my previous post with a link to the autopsy report, there is no injury on Trayvon's hand, suggesting that there wasn't really any life threatening "pounding" or "whaling" as suggested by Zimmerman's account of the event.

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@RST,

So taking someone head in your hands and pounding said head on the sidewalk would tear up your hands?

Sorry the Travyon is a victim crowd have had to get more and more silly and take note that the color picture of Zimmerman was not release by the special DA in a timely manner.

Second there are one killed for sure shots but they do not involved handguns used by people in a fight even it Firefly think so.

Snipers aim for the base of the brain to put someone out of action and life with one shot but no one can do that on purpose with a handgun in a fight.

I seen videos of gun battles where train police officers had empty their guns at point blank range and not hit the person they was aiming at less alone a heart kill shot.

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

parados wrote:

Then you are are a criminal hawkeye. No question about it. You will always be a criminal.

Me too! Me too! I've broken traffic laws more than once! I'm a criminal too!!

You can't be a criminal. You're a troll. They are mutually exclusive.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

So taking someone head in your hands and pounding said head on the sidewalk would tear up your hands?

I'm sure by your reasoning, besides the laceration on the head and the broken nose, a pair of black eyes and bruising in the upper lip and cheek can also be produced by holding their head and pounding it on the floor.

Suspicious that Zimmerman declined hospitalization the night of the shooting.
So Bill, after a night where your head was "pounded" by someone, would you decline hospitalization after the incident?
His injuries don't support his claim of self defense, but they do support the fact that he got out of his vehicle and followed Trayvon after he was advised to stop following.

Quote:

Second there are one killed for sure shots but they do not involved handguns used by people in a fight even it Firefly think so.

WTF? Is English not your native language?

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Snipers aim for the base of the brain to put someone out of action and life with one shot but no one can do that on purpose with a handgun in a fight.

Irrelevant.

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I seen videos of gun battles where train police officers had empty their guns at point blank range and not hit the person they was aiming at less alone a heart kill shot.

This doesn't really help you in your argument. Just the fact that the trained police officers didn't aim to kill in a fight suggests that they had a more effective alternative in neutralizing the threat. As the police did in such a case, if Zimmerman used his gun to fire around Trayvon to scare him away or safely put him in a submissive mood and avoid killing him, then that is definitely a more preferable event than an event where a scuffle leads to Trayvon being murdered.

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@RST,

After being attacked and needing to killed someone and then being question by the police before being released I would be in a state of shock myself and can see myself wishing to go home instead of having wounds taken care of at once.

My father and his friend was once rear ended and my father friend headed down the highway dragging part of my father car until stop by a police officer being in complete shock at the time.

I am sure you and Firefly would act in a completely rational manner after such an event but not most of us.

As I said before you need to get more and more silly to defend the position that Zimmerman is anything but a victim of a violence attack.

I am still getting over the idea that Zimmerman on purpose placed one kill bullet into Trayvon heart when even in firing squad executions such as in Utah a target is placed over the person heart.

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/shooting%20US.html

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@RST,

Quote:

Just the fact that the trained police officers didn't aim to kill in a fight suggests that they had a more effective alternative in neutralizing the threat.

Another person who have not a clue as anytime a police office fire at you he is trying to put you down and does not give a **** if he killed you or not. In fact he would not fired unless he consider the situation call for deadly force.

They do not fired to wound the person they aim for the center of mass not the legs or the arms for example.

When they missed even at point blank range it is due to their emotions and physical state not that they are not trying to use deadly force.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

You are getting very silly Firefly.............have you ever fired a firearm in your life as to think what you are saying is at all likely your knowledge of firearms seem to approach zero.

Your thinking is so confused you don't even know who you are responding to. I never made any comment about firing a gun.

I'm still waiting for you to provide the evidence that Zimmerman's head was pounded on the ground. The two very minor and tiny (less than 1/2 inch) scrapes on the back of his head do not support his account--that's not evidence of a pounding. Nor did his own doctor find any evidence of repeated trauma to the back of his head when he examined Zimmerman.

And, other than a punch to his nose, where is there any evidence that he was "beaten"?

And, if Martin put his hand over Zimmerman's mouth, as Zimmerman alleged, why wasn't Zimmerman's DNA found on that hand--Zimmerman also had blood on his nose that would have run down to his lip, yet Zimmerman's blood was not found on Martin's hand.

Where is the evidence to corroborate Zimmerman's account, BillRM? You keep dodging that issue.

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Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

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