45
   

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 12:37 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
Big discussion on Fox tonight about that FBI report which shuts the door on any sort of a race or racism angle and which totally kills any sort of a murder-2 case.


I think Murder 2 has been out from the beginning.

Florida law defines Murder 2 as Depraved Heart Murder (which is an accidental killing due to extreme recklessness).
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 12:40 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Is that where we are today in America....it takes the emotional upset of some vocal citizens to get rid of poor quality laws? And is that really good enough to count as a win?

I think a win would look like having a system that never passes poor quality law in the first place, to have a system where NGO's like the NRA could not get their wish lists inacted into law
Democracy is expressed thru the special interest groups,
including the NRA. Without that, democracy is impossible
and the damned politicians wud just take over the country.
We, the 3OO,OOO,OOO + citizens need to terrorize our low-life employee, government,
THRU OUR SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS like the NRA
into doing what we demand of the damned politicians.





David
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 03:33 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
I think Murder 2 has been out from the beginning.


It may be out as far as any possibility of a jury buying it, but that is what they're charging him with.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 04:49 am
@gungasnake,
They ought to do away with voting on posts and thread entirely.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 07:06 am
@Frank Apisa,
I agree.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 07:31 am
Interesting comment on FR thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2906435/posts

Quote:

Sanford Police has been corrupt for a long time.
It is well known here in central Florida.
The police chief that was just let go just came on board to try to fix the problem. He had an impossible job.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 08:30 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

There is if he had gone past that point, and had then turned around and gone back.

We have a good idea where he was based on his phone call. Of course we don't know where he was if we ignore all the evidence and just declare we don't know.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 02:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
They ought to do away with voting on posts and thread entirely.
Is it rong to applaud or to booo ??
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 04:22 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Is it rong to applaud or to booo ??


I don't think so.

But I still think they ought to do away with voting on posts and threads entirely.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 04:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
But I still think they ought to do away with voting on posts and threads entirely.


Certainly
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 06:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'd vote against that.

Don't be an asshole. Don't be a shithead. Answer questions if asked.

It's not rocket science, it's respect.

Joe(You'll always be welcome at my door)Nation


hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 06:42 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
Don't be an asshole. Don't be a shithead. Answer questions if asked.

It's not rocket science, it's respect


The pursuit of truth and the pursuit of tranquility dont travel very far together.

you already know which road I will take.

If you dont like it then sue me.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 06:52 pm
@Joe Nation,
Think about that, Joe. The idea is that you don't vote against anything, and here you go wanting to vote.

Still, in the wee, small hours I can find fifteen or more questions from Australian puzzle people. I like voting down things I don't want to see - as long as they let me vote.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 07:40 pm
Hey, don't mess with the Australian puzzle people. I know four or five Yanks, including me, who like to try to solve their puzzle questions. It's more challenging for us because A). we don't actually have the puzzle because they don't publish it here, and B). the person posing the question has often got one of the crossing words wrong, which is why they're hung up, so we have to figure out what it OUGHT to be, rather than what they have. It's our harmless night-time fun, just ignore it.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 07:56 pm
@roger,
I close out threads in a kind of housekeeping. That is different from thumbing down posts within threads.

I do that sometimes, but not all that often. Time goes by on that. I also try to stop myself from just thumbing up people I agree with, and try to thumb up people of various views who express themselves well. I probably fail on all that, thumbing up in agreement more than non agreement.

I'm presently fine with the thumbs choice. You don't have to use it, you know. (Not saying that to Roger, just saying generally).
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 05:28 am
@Frank Apisa,

Quote:
Is it rong to applaud or to booo ??
Frank Apisa wrote:


I don't think so.

But I still think they ought to do away with voting on posts and threads entirely.
Its a convenient means of free speech.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 05:45 pm

Poll: Most Floridians want no changes
to Stand Your Ground law


By Toluse Olorunnipa | McClatchy Newspapers
By Toluse Olorunnipa The Miami Herald
Florida’s controversial “Stand Your Ground” law continues to enjoy
widespread support among likely voters, even as a state task force
considers rewriting the law, according to a new Tampa Bay
Times/Miami Herald/Bay News 9 poll
.

Nearly 65 percent say the 2005 law — which allows people who
believe they are in grave danger to use deadly force to defend
themselves — does not need to be changed. There’s less consensus
when it comes to voters’ thoughts on the Trayvon Martin shooting,
which thrust “Stand Your Ground” into the national spotlight this year.

Voters are essentially split about whether George Zimmerman —
who faces second-degree murder charges for shooting the 17-year-
old Trayvon on Feb. 26 — was acting in self-defense when he pulled
the trigger. Forty-four percent believe he was and 40 percent say
he wasn’t, while 16 percent are not sure. Major differences emerge
when voters are separated by geography and race.

“The real divide on this is racial, which I think isn’t terribly surprising
given the racial tone that this [case] has taken,” said Brad Coker of
Mason-Dixon Polling & Research, a nonpartisan, Jacksonville-based
company that conducted the poll. The telephone survey of 800
registered Florida voters — all likely to vote in the November
general election — was conducted July 9-11 and has a margin of
error of 3.5 percentage points.

Voters in South Florida and blacks are the most likely to say “Stand
Your Ground” should be repealed or amended, and that Zimmerman
was not justified in shooting Trayvon.

Only 6 percent of black voters believe Zimmerman was acting in self-defense,
while 82 percent said he was not, the poll found. Hispanics were the
most likely to agree with Zimmerman’s self-defense claim, with 52
percent saying he was justified, compared to 50 percent of whites.
Hispanics were also the most likely to say they were not sure, with
25 percent undecided about the case. Trayvon is black; Zimmerman is Hispanic.

Zimmerman’s fate will likely hinge on the “Stand Your Ground” law,
which came under intense scrutiny after Trayvon shooting, with
many calling for its repeal. The 2005 law — which eliminates the so-
called “duty to retreat” during a confrontation in a public place —
remains popular in Florida, with only 18 percent saying it should be repealed.

Randy Gaskins, a 57-year-old firefighter and paramedic in Gainesville,
is a big fan of the law, and has a concealed weapons licence.

“I love ‘Stand Your Ground,’ ” he said. “I don’t want to turn tail and run.
Now, I’m not going to look for trouble or anything, but if someone
advances on you, you should be able to defend yourself.”

Not everyone supports the law, and a state task force is currently
reviewing it to see if changes should be recommended to the Legislature.
Critics say the law has allowed murderers to escape justice, and
that it is not applied fairly to all races.

Debra Peoples, of Tampa, said her son Chyvas was convicted of
manslaughter after killing a gang member who attacked him,
and was not allowed to use “Stand Your Ground.”

“This law failed my son,” Peoples, who is black, told members of
the task force last week. “I implore you, to look at the disparity of
how the ‘Stand Your Ground’ law is applied.”

Sixty-nine percent of black voters believe the law should be
repealed or modified, compared to just 28 percent of white voters
and 34 percent of Hispanics.
Margaret Kary, an 87-year-old from Penney Farms in north Florida,
said she thinks the law should be repealed. Kary says getting her 61-
year-old daughter to visit Florida has been difficult because of the
state’s gun-friendly culture.

“She’s afraid to come to Florida,” Kary said. “She thinks everyone
has a gun in their pocket.”

Last month, Trayvon’s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, and
members of the Second Chance on Shoot First campaign, a coalition
that includes New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the NAACP
and the National Urban League, presented a petition to the state
task force with more than 300,000 signatures demanding changes to
the law. They argue that those who initiate a confrontation should
not be protected under Stand Your Ground.

[All emfasis has been added by David.]
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 05:56 pm
Oh the state had just released a claim by some woman that at the age of 8 years he sexually assaultrd her.

No she was not 8 he was 8 and she was six or so....................

The state ready ready wish to win this case it would seems.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 06:45 pm
@BillRM,
The sexual molestation business seems completely irrelevant to the second degree murder charges, but her statement about the family's racial attitudes might be relevant to the state's case. They simply released her entire witness statement. I believe that's done in accordance with Florida's Sunshine Laws pertaining to open government records.
Quote:

The state ready ready wish to win this case it would seems.

Neither the state nor the defense wanted the evidence released--the media pushed for this under the Sunshine Laws.
Quote:
Woman Says George Zimmerman Molested Her For More Than A Decade
07/16/2012

A woman with close ties to George Zimmerman and his family told investigators that members of Zimmerman’s family were boastfully proud racists and that for more than a decade Zimmerman sexually molested her.

“It started when I was six,” the woman told investigators during an interview on the morning of March 20. “We’d all lay in front of the TV and we had pillows and blankets and he would reach under the blankets and try to do things and I would try to push him off but he was bigger and stronger and older,” the woman said, audibly weeping in the Florida State Attorney's Office interview recording released Monday. “It was in front of everybody and I don’t know how I didn’t say anything, I just didn’t know any better.”

The woman, identified in various reports and in taped interviews with investigators as witness 9, said that from the age of six to 19 Zimmerman repeatedly fondled her, at times penetrating her vagina with his finger.

A number of news sources have reported that the woman is a relative of the Zimmerman family, though her exact relationship to Zimmerman was redacted from the interview recording. Zimmerman's legal team, in a statement released later Monday night, identified the woman as a cousin.

“We’ve known about this since the beginning but out of respect to her privacy, her emotional state, we haven’t said anything,” Natalie Jackson, an attorney for the family of victim Trayvon Martin, told The Huffington Post.

The woman told investigators that she was coming forward when she did because she thought that Zimmerman might have shot and killed Martin because he was black, and that she finally felt safe enough to make a report when Zimmerman had gone into hiding after the shooting.

“This is the first time in my life that I’m not afraid of him,” the woman said. “[H]e cant get to me. If I saw him on the street or saw him anywhere it would just make me break down in tears, but now with everything going on I know that he’s not going to be out in public. I won't go to Target and see him anymore. I’m not afraid of him anymore.”

The molestation continued for years during visits between the families, she said. The Zimmermans lived in Virginia and moved down to Florida -- where the woman lived with her family -- not long after George Zimmerman graduated from high school. The last incident occurred in Lake Mary, Fla., where Zimmerman had moved into a house owned by his family ahead of their arrival from Virginia.

“It's not just me that he did these things to,” she said. The witness said that she talked to another woman who she claims was also molested by Zimmerman, but would not come forward.

The woman’s statements are part of the latest trove of evidence released by the State Attorney’s Office, which is handling Zimmerman’s second-degree murder case. Zimmerman is charged with Martin’s February 26 killing in Sanford, Fla. Other evidence released Monday includes nearly 150 jailhouse calls made to and from George Zimmerman.

Zimmerman’s defense attorney, Mark O’Mara, has argued that witness 9’s statements should not be released and that because her testimony would not be introduced at trial, it was irrelevant. Some of the racial implications made by the witness, he said, could likely cause “widespread hostile publicity.”

But Seminole County Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. issued an order in late June outlining which records prosecutors must release, and named witness 9’s statements.

Witness 9 first made an anonymous call to law enforcement and shortly thereafter met with investigators with the State Attorney's Office. The revelations of alleged sexual molestation were buttressed by the woman's belief that Martin's race may have played a role in his killing by Zimmerman.

“I was afraid that he may have done something because the kid was black,” the witness told investigators. “Because growing up they’ve always made, him and his family have always made statements that they don’t like black people if they don’t act like white people. They like black people if they act white and other than that, they talk a lot of bad things about black people.”

The woman said that Zimmerman’s Peruvian mother was among the more boastfully racist of the clan.

“His mother protested it very loud,” the woman said. During one incident, the woman said that Zimmerman’s mother had come to the witness’s workplace, and during a discussion about President Obama, made it clear how she felt about him and his ethnicity.

“I don’t like Obama,” the woman claimed Zimmerman’s mother stated. “She said, 'because he is black and I am a racist.'”

“I have a black girl that works right behind me and I’m like, what, are you just, let's go, and I kind of just swept her in the back,” the woman recalled. “I can’t believe that she stood there so loud and proud and said that she was a racist.”


The woman's interview is the second testimony in the past week in which people familiar with Zimmerman’s family have intimated that the group harbored negative racial views.

Last week, in another release of evidence which included dozens of interviews conducted by the FBI during its investigation into whether or not racial bias might have played a role in Martin’s killing, an ex-fiancé of Geroge Zimmerman’s said that Zimmerman’s mother resented her because she wasn’t white.

The woman, who described herself as being of Puerto Rican and Argentinean descent, said that Zimmerman's mother would talk openly about her racial views.

Zimmerman's mother would often talk about "marrying into white families in order to improve one's status," she said.

Witness 9 said that her family and the Zimmermans were close, and that they would take family trips together and would visit each other’s home at least once a year.

On one occasion, when she was about 12 years old and Zimmerman a few years older, she said that Zimmerman made her look at and rub his penis not long after he’d had some sort of surgery on it.

Other times she said that he would take her behind the window curtains in the living room and kiss and fondle her.

Before each encounter he would give her a look, she said.

“Every time that we would go up there I could just look at him and he would give me a certain look and I would know if it was going to happen,” the woman told investigators. “He just got this look in his eye ...”

After each encounter the woman said that Zimmerman would tell her not to tell anyone, to say that the two were just playing or laying down if anyone got suspicious or asked.

“I was a kid, I didn’t know any better,” the woman said. The last encounter happened when the woman was 19, she said. By then Zimmerman had moved to Florida, not long before his parents followed. That time, Zimmerman demanded that she lay down on the bed to receive a massage. Fearful, she said she did, but when he bent close to kiss the side of her face, his erect penis pressed up against her. At that moment she decided to run, she said. Zimmerman chased her to the front door.

“I was scared of what else was going to happen,” she said.

“With him, he like, he was a different person to me. He was very intimidating and the fact that he made everyone love him and made everyone laugh and be so happy around him, I knew if I said anything he would just deny it,” she said.

Meanwhile, George Zimmerman remains out of the public eye and in a safehouse after his release from the Seminole County Jail on July 6 on $1 million bond.

This story was previously updated to include audio recordings of witness interviews and reports that the woman is a relative of George Zimmerman.

UPDATE: 8 p.m. -- Hours after the release of witness 9’s statements by prosecutors, Zimmerman’s legal team, via its website, gzlegalcase.com, said that in the coming weeks it will “vigorously defend Mr. Zimmerman against the allegations.”

In the statement, Zimmerman’s legal team refers to witness 9 as a cousin of Zimmerman’s, and says that it fought to block the release of her statements with an earlier court motion because, “The content of this statement is not relevant to the issues of this case, and it would not be admissible in the State’s case in chief.”

The statement continued:

The motion further contends that this irrelevant statement should be withheld from public dissemination because of the substantial risk that public disclosure will lead to widespread hostile publicity which would substantially impair the Defendant's fair trial rights, and would pose a serious threat to the administration of justice.
That request was denied on July 13, 2012 by Judge Lester. Because there is a Motion for Disqualification pending, this morning, we asked the prosecution not to release Witness #9's statement until there was a ruling on the Motion for Disqualification. This is an appropriate request as, should the motion for disqualification be granted, reconsideration of recent rulings by the judge is appropriate. However, the prosecution elected to make the public disclosure anyway.

Now that this statement is part of the public record, the defense will vigorously defend Mr. Zimmerman against the allegations. In the next several weeks, there will be reciprocal discovery filed regarding Witness #9's statement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 07:05 pm
@BillRM,
If you think about it and assuming they really want to get this guy as desperately as it appears they do, he would have been around 11 - 12 or so right around 96 or thereabouts and they should be able to find some woman to accuse him of forcing her to play perv demoKKKrat president/intern games, popular at the time.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.09 seconds on 12/23/2024 at 11:23:41