Who does home schooling?

Don't get me wrong. I am not a blanket advocate of home schooling. But I do think that there are some children who WOULD benefit from it.

As far as home schooling being narrowly sectarian, wouldn't you find the same thing in religious schools?

Phoenix, if you look carefully in my post, you'll see that I say I don't think homeschooled children getting together solves the socialization problem. They still are dealing with a few children like themselves - whether alike because of religious valued teaching, or because they are all brilliant - and not dealing with the larger world, where people have many differences. Thus a gap to span later, if at all.

I just thought of a third category -- parents who think they could do a better job than the school, but actually are clueless. (I know at least one of those. Ack.)

I don't think so. The real nuts don't like the religious schools either. I've tried convincing some of them to place their kids in school, and a religious one if that would convince them.

But they are convinced that even most Christians are evil.

This is why I think unregulated homeschooling is dangerous. It allows the nut cases to hide their children from reality.

The people I describe are not just religious, they are nuts. They should be allowed to have children in the first place, and in several countries they've had their children taken from them.

This type very frequently opts for home schooling. Or no schooling altogether (some think education is evil).

Phoenix, I think so too, such as those with some specific behavioral/ emotional disorders.

As in Craven's example, my cousin also home-schooled until junior high age for religious reasons - but because she lives in a 'bible-thumping' community. One of the same ones that was recently involved in wanting to eliminate the word "evolution" from text books. So far it has worked for her, but I often worry about her childrens exposure to other children. Without ouside schooling or neighborhood children their age they have been pretty protected.

Only in the last couple of years have they been exposed to kids their own age through dance classes and gym classes, etc.. It will be interesting to see how they adjust socially in the coming years. It may not be too difficult because there are 4 of them and maybe that makes it easier, but we'll see. They are very bright, well-spoken and well-behaved but how will they function without structure in seas of thousands of pupils?

Osso- I question whether the thirst for excellence, creativity, innovation, and individuality is emphasized and nurtured in the public schools. I would suspect that there are many public school students, with a little extra attention, who could potentially achieve at a level that they never will.

Just saw Phoenix's post. I'm not sure if you're including all religious schools in your thought. I went to Catholic school for 12 years. To be honest, I only had nuns in elementary school because there aren't that many left. The rest of the time I had lay (regular) teachers. Theology class is only one class a day (the publics had to go to CCD anyway). Religion didn't affect any of my other classes - sciences, math, English, etc.. Some of those nuns got a great college education as well. Also, there are other children there and we were friends out of school as well as with the kids in the neighborhood. It was pretty normal.

There are 'religious' schools that are much stricter and more segregated, but I can't think of any in my area to compare it to.

One of the things I question about home schooling of the type organized re religious values, not of the kind arranged for the aeronautical engineer I mentioned, is that argumentation is likely only to be promoted as a kind of rote defense of how-we-think. Analytic thinking might be forever stymied. Regular conversational discussion of points of view is apt to be not even a goal. This kind of mental and vocal deficit would be added to a lack of experience with being around different kinds of people...

Phoenix -- first, that's really broad. My public school experience was stellar, I continue to be involved in education and there is really, really great stuff out there. That tends to not get the press, but out there.

Second, as I already alluded to, can't this little extra attention happen outside of school hours? If a parent is skilled enough to do all of the homeschooling, they can't do it when the kid's at home?

Third, peer influence is enormous. For every student that could maybe do better with continuous one-on-one attention from a skilled parent (and the parent really has to be skilled, that is rare), there are several students in a public school setting who are benefitting from that bright student's presence.

Sugar- I would expect that the religious schools would reflect the teachings of the church that they represent. The more fundamentalist the church, the more narrow the connected schools would be.

I don't know how old you are, but my Catholic friends used to tell horror stories about the brutality that they had to endure from the nuns in the Catholic schools. I think that this has probably changed since lay teachers have taken over most of the positions in Catholic schools.

In fact, when I was a teenager, there was a popular "T" shirt. It said, "I Survived Catholic School"!

(By the way want to be sure it's clear that I wasn't referring to Montana when I said I knew one person who thinks she's doing a better job than the schools, and so isn't -- it sounds like Montana is doing a really good job. The person I'm referring to is the one who also refuses to vaccinate, whose daughters had measles a while back [I referred to it here at some point]. :-?)

My only experience with public school was in going to UCLA, where I was "snowed" by how bright people were. Still are, I presume. Those 26,000 (at the time) students came mostly from public high schools in the area.

On present day public schools I only know about the large city high school my niece goes to. Her classes don't sound bad at all...

As a general philosophy I agree with Sozobe on keeping bright and lucky children who are both smart and have benefitted from family assisted learning in touch with those not quite so bright and lucky. I have cringed at all the flight from public schools - I'd rather see them made better. On an individual basis I understand a family decision to remove their particular children, but it makes me sad.

Has anyone ever read Jane Jacob's The Death and Life of American Cities? Summarizing badly, it relates in a way to Noddy's refrain, "hold your dominion". Stay in place, make things better.

Phoenix, I was a 13 yr. catholic school student, had a year of catholic college too. My own experience with that colors my comments about children not getting practice in thinking analytically, but that's another tangent from homeschooling.

My school was a very tight ship - we certainly learned about evolution though. Catholic doesn't mean Fundamental, even if it is taught by nuns. Nuns aren't nuns because they are Fundamentalists. Many women became nuns because they received higher education, got to travel, and didn't need to rely on their families if they hadn't married. The joke is - Here in the northeast you don't have to go to Mass every Sunday. Just don't take god's name in vain, eat fish on Friday and say you're sorry when the end comes. That's being a good Irish Catholic.

I got whacked in the back of the head by Sister Celestine AND Sister Margaret. I lived. My friends around the corner went to public. Mr. Gofarb used to throw baseballs at them when they weren't looking. Everyone has bad teachers. I can tell you this - I willingly went to Catholic high school because my city's public school was a drug infested hell hole. I received an incredible education that I'm very grateful for.

I know several families with special needs children. They have found homeschooling to be of great benefit to their children. And I also know a couple of families who homeschool because they live a great distance away from schools. And one family who homeschools because they can afford for the mother to stay at home, she is well-educated and she wishes to do that. In her area (Houston, TX) there are many clubs and social activities designed for homeschooled children (sports, chess club, community projects, etc.) so her kids have plenty of interaction with others as well as individualized instruction. They are testing 1-2 grades ahead of their peers in local public schools.

It's a decision that needs to be made with the individual child in mind, as well as the needs and values of the family. It is not important what others think. For instance, I've made the choice to send my child to public school, but several friends have taken me to task for not sending him to private school since we can afford it. I don't even bother to give them the "I-believe-in-public-education" speech because frankly, it's none of their business. I just smile and nod, and pretty soon they drop the subject. Because of this, I have learned not to second-guess other parents' decisions about their children's education.

A well-honed smile-and-nod is a mighty useful tool... ;-)

This is something I have felt strongly about for a very long time, before the sozlet was a twinkle in anyone's eye, and it's interesting as it becomes less academic. Haven't changed how I feel about it yet.

This makes perfect sense with sane parents. But what about the nuts? What about the ones who are determined to deny their kids education because they think it's evil?

Their children shouldn't be punished for the parents idiocy.

I agree, bad decisions are being made and children often suffer because of their parents' idiocy (in many ways.) But...

If we can't trust parents to make decisions about their own children's educations, then who should make that decision? The government? And who decides which parents are nutcases?

I'd prefer there were more oversight, though I agree it is something that needs to be approached carefully. I do think there are ways to make sure that the parents who are doing a good job can keep doing that good job, though, while filtering for the crazies.