2
   

Israel Court Rejects Delay In Settlement Evacuation

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 03:28 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
But, importantly, the Pals to this day do not even recognize the nation of Israel. This is somewhat understandable because any Pal leader who does so will be forthwith assassinated.


You're talking about Hamas, not all of Palestine. Not only that you're ignoring the fact that Hamas has offered long term ceasefires of up to twenty years.

Israel is too busy creating facts on the ground, snatching up territory to be interested in peace.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 07:32 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Advocate wrote:
But, importantly, the Pals to this day do not even recognize the nation of Israel. This is somewhat understandable because any Pal leader who does so will be forthwith assassinated.


You're talking about Hamas, not all of Palestine. Not only that you're ignoring the fact that Hamas has offered long term ceasefires of up to twenty years.

Israel is too busy creating facts on the ground, snatching up territory to be interested in peace.


You are wrong again. Arafat told Clinton that he would be assassinated were he to agree at Camp Daavid. Or maybe you think he was a member of Hamas.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 02:34 am
@Advocate,
There's a good chance Arafat was murdered by Israel using polonium.

If Arafat had been able to stop the brutality of the occupation he would have had nothing to fear from Palestinians.
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 04:58 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:

There's a good chance Arafat was murdered by Israel using polonium.

If Arafat had been able to stop the brutality of the occupation he would have had nothing to fear from Palestinians.


Israel has a long predatory history of getting rid of its enemies...it's called assassination. Israel is at the forefront in using preemptive tactics against a perceived adversarial opponent. In destroying the head of the PLO, Yasser Arafat, Israel believed the Palestinian people without a leader would fall and an obstacle to Zionist's expansionist ideals would be removed. If proven Arafat were poisoned the main suspect would fall on Israel, already a country much distrusted by the world proper.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 06:22 am
@Moment-in-Time,

izzythepush wrote:
There's a good chance Arafat was murdered by Israel using polonium.


There is no chance whatsoever that Arafat was murdered, and there is even less of a chance that his death involved polonium.



izzythepush wrote:
If Arafat had been able to stop the brutality of the occupation he would have had nothing to fear from Palestinians.


Given the fact that Palestinians care only about murdering innocent people, they would have indeed been unhappy with Arafat had he made peace with Israel.

Look what happened to the Egyptian leader who made peace with Israel. Muslims like murdering innocent people. It makes them cranky when they aren't allowed to do it.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moment-in-Time wrote:
In destroying the head of the PLO, Yasser Arafat, Israel believed the Palestinian people without a leader would fall and an obstacle to Zionist's expansionist ideals would be removed.


Silliness. You are talking about a motive for an event that never even occurred.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
If proven Arafat were poisoned


That's sort of like saying "If proven Arafat were vaporized by a death ray from Venus".
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 06:23 am
@Moment-in-Time,
I have started a thread on this topic which has stalled while we wait for the results of the neutral autopsy.
http://able2know.org/topic/193275-1
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 07:59 am
@Advocate,
Quote:

You and the other Israel haters keep ascribing things to me that are untrue. For instance, I have never even been asked about my thoughts on Israel's nuclear facilities, much less denied their existence. Certainly, Israel has the facilities and the bomb. Being surrounded by over a billion enemies, Israel is definitely in need of them.


You are correct, Advocate, and I do apologize. My answer came about precipitously; I was disturbed by your refusal to acknowledge Oralloy's unbalanced comment referring to the Palestinians as "vermin." Your failure to speak out against such a diseased attack gave one the impression you agreed with the poster. All decent people have a right to speak up in the face of such unreasonable rhetoric/statement....but you let it ride?! Why?!?!

As for Israel being surrounded by enemies, you are correct; however, if the expansionist nature of Israel were to stop stealing her neighbors' land, maybe these enemies would fade away in time. Israel is the maker of its own misfortune. At the rate its going with the help of the US it might soon own the entire Middle East!

Advocate wrote:
Quote:
Also, I have never thought, or intimated, that the Pals are vermin. I think that all people are, overall, basically the same. It is their leadership, culture, religion, etc., that often leads them astray.


You are right, once again, Advocate. I have never heard you stoop to that savage level and I do agree that man is man, and it is the government primarily which sets the rules. This is why I say to you I am *NOT* a hater of the Israeli people or opposed to their existence in the middle east; I am very much against Israeli policies which seem determined to STEAL all the land it survey with the help of the United States, my government! I am also against the sadistic settlers who *ostensibly* claim a god gave them this land. Some settlers ignorantly believe a god gave them the land as a gift (they cannot produce a deed to said land) and others just see a chance to get cheap land.

Advocate wrote:
Quote:

Were Israel so anti Pal, why is it that, in all their conflicts, only about 10,000 Pals have been killed? Israel could have easily killed millions.


Ten thousand Palestinians killed by Israel you say?! Wow! I did not know that. How many Israelis were killed? 50? Sure, Israel could easily have killed millions but where would such a sadistic country be under such a happening? As it is some Israelis leaders (Tzipi Livni cancelled a trip to Europe for fear of being arrested) are unable to travel abroad for fear of being arrested. Under such a scenario, the killing of millions of Palestinians, Israel would be condemned to a world of total isolation by the world community; Israel would seal the fate of its hopes for a future....the United States of America would be powerless to help the Zionist nation.

Advocate wrote:
Quote:
Israel has always been open to peace. But, importantly, the Pals to this day do not even recognize the nation of Israel. This is somewhat understandable because any Pal leader who does so will be forthwith assassinated.


This is a disingenuous statement on your part. You and I both know Israel possess no desire or plans to give back land or to quit the occupation of the West Bank. If it [Israel] were open to peace it would have abided by Abbas request to stop building settlements until borders are established. But Netanyahu gave the Palestinian leader the finger, in effect saying "f*ck" you!

Also another deceptive statement you're fond of spouting is "the Pals will not recognize Israel's existence." This is pure BS! Abbas has done this and so has Hamas (in his limited way) but most importantly the leadership has done this. See the quote which follows:

"As reported by the Financial Times, in 1988 Yasser Arafat declared that the Palestinians had accepted Israel's right to exist.[16] In 1993, there was an official exchange of letters between Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Chairman Arafat, in which Arafat declared that "the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid."[17]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_exist
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 08:48 am
@Moment-in-Time,
You are lying about so many things that I am not going to comment on each lie.

You keep saying, ad nauseam, that Israel steals land. That is a lie for the reasons stated to you many times.

I don't recall Oral refer to vermin. But keep in mind that I don't call you out on every stupid and bigoted remark that you make. I don't have the time or inclination to do this.

But please stop ascribing statements, etc., to me that are untrue. It is cheap, dishonest, and anti-intellectual to do this.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 10:32 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
Advocate wrote:
You and the other Israel haters keep ascribing things to me that are untrue. For instance, I have never even been asked about my thoughts on Israel's nuclear facilities, much less denied their existence. Certainly, Israel has the facilities and the bomb. Being surrounded by over a billion enemies, Israel is definitely in need of them.


You are correct, Advocate, and I do apologize. My answer came about precipitously; I was disturbed by your refusal to acknowledge Oralloy's unbalanced comment referring to the Palestinians as "vermin." Your failure to speak out against such a diseased attack gave one the impression you agreed with the poster. All decent people have a right to speak up in the face of such unreasonable rhetoric/statement....but you let it ride?! Why?!?!


There is nothing unbalanced, diseased, or unreasonable about condemning the Palestinians for being such horrible people.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
As for Israel being surrounded by enemies, you are correct; however, if the expansionist nature of Israel were to stop stealing her neighbors' land, maybe these enemies would fade away in time.


Israel is not stealing anything.

First, Israel are the legitimate owners of that land.

And second, Israel has offered to give up that land in exchange for peace. The Palestinians refused, because the only thing that matters to a Palestinian is the joy they get from murdering innocent people.

And so far as fading away goes, the only thing that ultimately prevents Muslims from murdering innocent people is bombing them until they stop doing it.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
Israel is the maker of its own misfortune.


Wrong. It is not Israel's fault that Muslims like to murder innocent people.

It's the Muslims' own fault that they like to murder innocent people.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
At the rate its going with the help of the US it might soon own the entire Middle East!


Israel has not captured any land since 1967, and since then they have willingly surrendered it in exchange for peace.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Also, I have never thought, or intimated, that the Pals are vermin. I think that all people are, overall, basically the same. It is their leadership, culture, religion, etc., that often leads them astray.


You are right, once again, Advocate. I have never heard you stoop to that savage level and I do agree that man is man, and it is the government primarily which sets the rules. This is why I say to you I am *NOT* a hater of the Israeli people or opposed to their existence in the middle east;


It sure would be nice if you'd stop telling such horrible lies about them then.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
I am very much against Israeli policies which seem determined to STEAL all the land it survey with the help of the United States, my government!


First, Israel cannot steal what it legitimately owns.

And second, Israel has offered to give up that land in exchange for peace.

Your horrible lies about Israel are actually one of the reasons the Palestinians aren't ever going to get a state. It's a shame you don't understand these equations:

Peace with Israel = Palestinian state

No peace with Israel = no Palestinian state



Moment-in-Time wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Were Israel so anti Pal, why is it that, in all their conflicts, only about 10,000 Pals have been killed? Israel could have easily killed millions.


Ten thousand Palestinians killed by Israel you say?! Wow! I did not know that. How many Israelis were killed? 50? Sure, Israel could easily have killed millions but where would such a sadistic country be under such a happening? As it is some Israelis leaders (Tzipi Livni cancelled a trip to Europe for fear of being arrested) are unable to travel abroad for fear of being arrested. Under such a scenario, the killing of millions of Palestinians, Israel would be condemned to a world of total isolation by the world community; Israel would seal the fate of its hopes for a future....the United States of America would be powerless to help the Zionist nation.


You treat the Israelis as if they were a bunch of Muslims or something.

Israelis don't go around trying to massacre innocent people the way Muslims always do, and it is ridiculous to suggest that it is only fear of prosecution that restrains them.

Since Livni never committed a crime, it would be unlawful to arrest her. Any nation that tried such a thing would be legitimate game for military retaliation.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Israel has always been open to peace. But, importantly, the Pals to this day do not even recognize the nation of Israel. This is somewhat understandable because any Pal leader who does so will be forthwith assassinated.


This is a disingenuous statement on your part.


No it isn't. You know very well that he is telling the truth.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
You and I both know Israel possess no desire or plans to give back land or to quit the occupation of the West Bank.


Nonsense. You know very well that Ehud Barak offered the Palestinians 100% of the Gaza Strip, 97% of the West Bank in one contiguous block, and East Jerusalem as their capital.

And you know very well that the Palestinians sent wave after wave of suicide bombers until the Israeli voters got sick of it and replaced him with Ariel Sharon.

If you think that "an unending stream of lies denying Israel's past willingness to make peace" will ever convince Israeli voters to elect another peacemaker, I can assure you it will have the opposite effect.



Moment-in-Time wrote:
If it [Israel] were open to peace it would have abided by Abbas request to stop building settlements until borders are established. But Netanyahu gave the Palestinian leader the finger, in effect saying "f*ck" you!


Abbas had no business demanding that he get a concession for free before even coming to the negotiating table.

But contrary to what you said, Obama convinced Israel to halt settlement construction for 10 whole months by offering them a stockpile of 5000-pound bunker busters to bomb Iran's illegal nuclear program with, so they did in fact halt settlement construction.

And Abbas still refused to come and negotiate.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 12:39 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

The only thing Israel is doing is preventing the Palestinians from murdering innocent people. That does not in any way violate their rights.


The thing that the Zionists are doing is oppressing the Palestinian peoples and using the violent reaction of the militants among them as a pretext to further oppress them.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 12:42 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
Nonsense, Israel’s “homeland” dates to early 1948.

When you deny history this way, you invalidate all of your arguments.

Israel's homeland dates from the dawn of the Iron Age.


When you conflate history with religious ethnocentric mythology you invalidate all of your arguments.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 01:08 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

That the resolutions of the General Assembly have no legal force, is a fact.

And this does not negate the fact that this is a Zionist rationalization for either ignoring those UN General Assembly resolutions outright, or ignoring only those portions of which are inconvenient to their continued oppression of the Palestinian peoples.

Quote:
And it is also a fact that they are merely a bunch of anti-Semitic rhetoric couched in legal language.


This silly assertion is negated by the fact that the Zionists, like Abba Eban, point to those UN General Assembly resolutions as foundational legal documents.

oralloy wrote:
Israel is not in any way a greater offender.


Uh-huh.

oralloy wrote:
And no, the Arab and Palestinian violations of 242 count just as much as any Israeli violations.


Nuh-uh.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 01:11 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
The Palestinians are not being oppressed.

Uh-huh.

oralloy wrote:
They are merely being prevented from murdering innocent people, and rightly so.


Nuh-uh.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 06:55 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The only thing Israel is doing is preventing the Palestinians from murdering innocent people. That does not in any way violate their rights.


The thing that the Zionists are doing is oppressing the Palestinian peoples and using the violent reaction of the militants among them as a pretext to further oppress them.


Telling a Palestinian that they are not allowed to murder innocent people is not in any way "oppression".
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 06:56 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
Nonsense, Israel’s “homeland” dates to early 1948.


When you deny history this way, you invalidate all of your arguments.
Israel's homeland dates from the dawn of the Iron Age.


When you conflate history with religious ethnocentric mythology you invalidate all of your arguments.


Perhaps, but since I'm not doing that, it doesn't matter.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 06:59 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
That the resolutions of the General Assembly have no legal force, is a fact.


And this does not negate the fact that this is a Zionist rationalization for either ignoring those UN General Assembly resolutions outright, or ignoring only those portions of which are inconvenient to their continued oppression of the Palestinian peoples.


No rationalization is required. The General Assembly has no power and is best ignored.

It is hardly "oppression" to tell a Palestinian that they aren't allowed to murder innocent people.



InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
And it is also a fact that they are merely a bunch of anti-Semitic rhetoric couched in legal language.


This silly assertion is negated by the fact that the Zionists, like Abba Eban, point to those UN General Assembly resolutions as foundational legal documents.


Nothing silly about about denouncing anti-Semitism.

And no, nothing can negate the reality that most General Assembly resolutions are just anti-Semitism couched in legal language.



InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Israel is not in any way a greater offender.


Uh-huh.


By pretending that Israeli violations count worse than other violations, you invalidate all your complaints about Israeli violations.



InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
And no, the Arab and Palestinian violations of 242 count just as much as any Israeli violations.


Nuh-uh.


By pretending that Israeli violations count worse than other violations, you invalidate all your complaints about Israeli violations.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2013 07:00 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The Palestinians are not being oppressed.


Uh-huh.


Telling a Palestinian they aren't going to be allowed to murder innocent people is hardly "oppression".



InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
They are merely being prevented from murdering innocent people, and rightly so.


Nuh-uh.


No, the only thing that is being done to the Palestinians, is they are being prevented from murdering innocent people.

And it is right that this be done.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2013 01:54 pm
Refer to my previous posts ad infinitum.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2013 12:45 am
@InfraBlue,
No thanks.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2013 05:31 pm
Another unexpected court decision, predictably those opposed to human rights will applaud it.

Quote:
Israel's military has said it will not order a criminal investigation into the bombing of a house in Gaza in the 2012 conflict which left 12 civilians dead.

Ten members of one family and two of their neighbours were killed on 18 November when the house they were in was hit by a missile.

The Israeli Defense Forces said that the deaths were "regrettable".

But it said the strike had been justified as it happened during an attempt to target a senior militant.

Yahia Rabia, described as the head of a Hamas rocket unit, escaped unharmed.

More than 150 Gazans and six Israelis were killed in the brief but brutal conflict last year, named Operation Pillar of Defence by Israel.

Most of those killed were civilians, according to UN figures.

Among them was Mohamed Dalou, a Hamas policeman, nine members of his family - including four children - and their two neighbours.

The BBC's Wyre Davies says the attack on the Dalou house became a defining moment of the conflict, and challenged Israel's assertion that it was carrying out surgical strikes on enemy targets.

"The week-long conflict in and around Gaza was brutal, if brief. I saw many victims of war, most of them civilians in the crowded hospitals of Gaza. My BBC colleagues, reporting from the Israeli side, also witnessed the horror that war brings to densely populated civilian populations as the barrage of rockets from Gaza occasionally pierced Israel's much vaunted new missile defence system.

But nothing I saw compared with the destruction of the Dalou home.

Irrespective of whether or not there was a legitimate "target" in the house, the thing that struck me was that, up to that point, Israel had made a huge deal about its "surgical strikes". In contrast to the indiscriminate rocket fire from Palestinian militants, Israel chose its targets carefully and often released real-time videos to emphasise the point. As far as I am aware no video has been released of the attack on the Dalou home."

There is a fragile truce in and around Gaza now, but little has changed on the ground. The Israelis and the Palestinian militants stick to their guns, quite literally.

Human rights groups had described the incident as a war crime and called for criminal prosecution.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22145144
 

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