37
   

The politics of hoodie wearing

 
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 03:08 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

You support media doctoring 911 tapes and releasing them as if they were unaltered? All news-oriented 911 tapes, or just in this case?


I don't remember you as someone who tilted with strawmen. I never said anything like I support media doctoring evidence. I have simply said I don't give much of a shyt about the aspects of this case you seem to be in a twist over.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 03:17 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
You support media doctoring 911 tapes and releasing them as if they were unaltered? All news-oriented 911 tapes, or just in this case?


anyone stupid enough to believe anything they hear, watch or read in the news gets what they deserve

but to answer the question, yes i would support that, we deserve to be lied to at every turn
FreeDuck
 
  7  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 03:19 pm
@Lash,
I've only read a little bit about the "unfortunate editing" of the 911 call played on one show, but it changes nothing about my understanding/suspicions about this case since all of the 911 calls were released in their entirety by the Sanford police and have been publicly available for some time. NBC apparently made Zim's call sound worse by clipping part of it out, but I think it sounds plenty bad for him without the editing.

While I agree that this case is being tried in the media, I believe that's because, as Stewart's "senior black correspondent" says, no other court will take the case. If there were any belief he was going to be charged it wouldn't have been necessary. And yes, I still believe he should be charged based on the undisputed facts of the case -- that he initiated the situation, that he pursued the victim, that he was armed, and that he could have made any number of different choices that would have prevented the outcome. Trayvon, on the other hand, had very few choices. Since the beginning of this case I've heard his story change at least once. Initially he said Trayvon jumped him from behind. Then when a witness reported hearing words exchanged he changed it to Trayvon hitting him in the nose and knocking him down. Another version has the conversation happening while Zimmerman is still in his truck. He has a vested interest in making the kid seem scary. The kid is too dead to tell otherwise. But the bottom line is that he controlled the situation and he was armed and a kid who did neither is dead because of it. My old fashioned sense of justice says he should pay for that.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 04:31 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I've been in more than a few conversations here and elsewhere that impressed upon me that race is a dated social construct.

That's fine, but I wonder why you kept using race when claiming Zimmerman wasn't white. Now you are just moving the goal posts. Zimmerman is by definition white. Stating he is white is factual.

I understand your concern that some news organizations kept repeatedly claiming he was "white." It's really no different than someone always referring to Barack Hussein Obama. While both are factual, they also attempt to cause a bias by repeating something that isn't really relevant.

Quote:
THIS is disturbing, and in the same vein as the sudden "new white Hispanic" race/ethnicity issue.
There is no SUDDEN new white Hispanic issue. I have been following race statistics for years. There have been "white Hispanics" for well over 30 years. DOJ and Census have both classified the majority of Hispanics as white. There is nothing sudden about it other than the desire to suddenly claim that white hispanics don't exist.
Here is from Fox in 2011, BEFORE this "sudden" issue.
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/lifestyle/2011/09/29/census-more-latinos-list-themselves-as-white/


My response really has nothing to do with any party line. It's merely a factual line.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 04:34 pm
@snood,
I've never asked you to redeem me snood so I'm glad you've given up.

I don't disagree that there is a history of blacks getting the short end of the stick with the criminal justice system, but it's not absolute, and where it does occur it's not soley a case of race. Poor people of all races tend to get the short end of the justice stick. The Memphis Three are a prime example of this.

I can understand why some people might feel that Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged, but these people don't have all of the evidence, and unless the local police have a history of shorting blacks it shouldn't be assumed that they did in this case.

I do understand why blacks are suspicious, but suspicions aren't facts and past injustices don't justify a rush to judgment on George Zimmerman. They certainly don't justify putting a bounty on his head, manipulating his words, or having congress enter a resolution that he is a racist.

Frankly, it's not justice at work to assume that whenever there is a black victim and the perpetrator is not black, that racism is involved. Again, I can understand why blacks may tend to believe there is, but the criminal justice system should not, and nor should the Media , elected officials, and people who style themselves as leaders of any group of people.

I'm nit entirely comfortable with the idea that if a group of people make enough of a ruckus that a special investigator will be appointed where none would otherwise, but I'm glad one was, and if the ruckus was justified, that's where it should have stopped.

At this point though, I'm afraid that for a large number of people, there is nothing to investigate, no questions to answer. No matter what the Special investigator concludes, they've already made up their minds that Zimmerman is a racist murderer.

Maybe he is, and if he is, he needs to pay, but if presumption of innocence has any meaning, it has to apply to everyone, black, brown, yellow, red and white. This is what our leaders need to be talking to us about, not calling press conferences to throw gas on the fire of folks responding emotionally.

Our news media needs to be reporting facts, and not deliberately distorting them. This sort of behavior is as much a violation of the public trust as a cop not arresting a man who kills a black kid solely because he identifies with him.(and if you think I'm full of it, check out Don Cheedle's recent tweets). While the consequences may not rise to the harms blacks have experienced as a result of institutional bias, the same dynamic has been going on for some time for conservatives as relates to the MSM.

I suspect you find such claims of media bias as dubious, but empathy isn't worth a whole lot if it only kicks in as respects people with whom you agree.

The really sad aspect of this is that ultimately the bad blood that can arise from highly charged situations like this sticks with regular people and not the self-absorbed hucksters who fan the flames.

Blacks like Juan Williams, Shelby Steele, and Mayor Nutter ask why this one incident draws more attention and outrage than the far greater number of black on black crimes and from what I can see they are, at best, simply ignored.

If Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, or Sheila Jackson Lee can assure that no black person is ever again killed by a white person for racial reasons, they will have done very little for their people. If they can make a huge dent in black on black murders among young black men they will have done something of worth. Of course the latter won't garner them the publicity they crave, and so it will never happen.

Eventually we will know all we can know about this incident. That's the time to form judgments. Nothing wrong with personally jumping the gun unless one expects the world to act on it.




0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 04:43 pm
@FreeDuck,
Your opinion on this incident, like just about everybody else in America, is based on what you have heard or read. Clearly NBC was guilty of distorting the truth, not unfortunate editing issues.

If NBC can be guilty of violating the public trust, why would you believe that all other sources upon which you rely are pristine?
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 04:48 pm
re Finn: actually aamid all the fuzz around the facts by now, I'd heard that the cops DID want to arrest Zimmerman, but the kprosecutors said no, because the idiot Stand Your Ground law makes it essentially impossible to convict anyone. They hate the law.
Getting rid of the law, and somehow neutering the NRA and zealots like David who advocate multiple guns for everybody, everywhere, all of the time, and getting rid of the damned guns would go a long way toward turning us back into a civilized society. Actually neutering doesn't sound like a bad idea, now that I think about it. It would reduce the testosterone posturing a lot.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 05:02 pm
@MontereyJack,
A debate on the SYG law is certainly legitimate, but hardly requires charges of racism to validate one side or the other.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 05:42 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
re Finn: actually aamid all the fuzz around the facts by now, I'd heard that the cops DID want to arrest Zimmerman, but the kprosecutors said no, because the idiot Stand Your Ground law makes it essentially impossible to convict anyone. They hate the law.
As if it is the job of the citizens and the legislators
to KEEP the criminal PROSECUTORS HAPPY.
Long live personal freedom of the Individual citizen!!!!!
Let government and its prosecutors be damned!




MontereyJack wrote:
Getting rid of the law, and somehow neutering the NRA and zealots like David who advocate multiple guns for everybody, everywhere, all of the time, and getting rid of the damned guns would go a long way toward turning us back into a civilized society. Actually neutering doesn't sound like a bad idea, now that I think about it. It would reduce the testosterone posturing a lot.
This post shows the anathema in which Original Americanism is held by political deviants.

The deviants may have been born in America,
but thay r not Americans.

( Now, thay 'll complain: "hay, the very instrument that u support
says that everyone that is born here is a citizen." I know
. )
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 05:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
A debate on the SYG law is certainly legitimate,
but hardly requires charges of racism to validate one side or the other.
Interestingly, that law protects blacks more than whites
because proportionally, there r a lot more black victims of criminal violence, than whites.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 05:53 pm
@djjd62,

Lash wrote:
You support media doctoring 911 tapes and releasing them as if they were unaltered? All news-oriented 911 tapes, or just in this case?
djjd62 wrote:
anyone stupid enough to believe anything they hear, watch or read in the news gets what they deserve

but to answer the question, yes i would support that, we deserve to be lied to at every turn
This is rendered in the true spirit of liberalism, supporting deception and evil.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 05:55 pm
@snood,
Your statement "Well, it's at least right up there with Zimmerman getting to sue the media" led me to think that you were saying falsifying 911 tapes doesn't merit a legal response. Not a strawman - attempting to understand your opinion.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 06:05 pm
I have to say - I'm really thankful these issues are being discussed. Will be watching the whole ball of wax unwind.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 06:14 pm
More bettah facts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-case-polic_n_1384301.html

They DID ask to arrest Zimmerman, as MJ stated.

excerpt

The Miami Herald reported that the local police initially went to the Seminole State Attorney with a request to file charges and the police report labeled the case as "homicide/negligent manslaughter."

"The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in mid-stream," Angela Corey, the special prosecutor on the case said.

Chris Serino, the lead detective on the case, expressed doubts around Zimmerman's account of the shooting, according to ABC News. Serino filed an affidavit on the night of the shooting in which he said that he was unconvinced of Zimmerman's version of events.

Serino told MSNBC Tuesday night that he was not at liberty to discuss the case, but he feels very encouraged by the new investigation into the shooting, and he was "looking forward to the truth coming out."

Also:

"Bill Lee, Sanford's police chief, had previously given a very different account of the investigation. He said that his department had neither the evidence nor legal grounds to arrest Zimmerman, who he said was legally carrying the concealed 9 mm pistol the night of the shooting, and said Zimmerman had the right to defend himself with deadly force.

Lee had come under considerable criticism for the way his department handled the investigation, and stepped down from his post last week following a no-confidence vote from the city commission."
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 06:27 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quotation marks serve a purpose and should not be ignored. Besides news accounts, the Sanford police have released quite a few things to the public on the city website. Regardless, the facts that form my opinion are not disputed.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 06:31 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-police-report-reveals-crime-scene-details-175656087.html

More information.

Excerpt:

"The report states that George Zimmerman's gun "was placed into evidence" and not returned to him, and the scene of the shooting was secured with crime scene tape. This directly conflicts with statements made by civil rights activists, including Rev. Jesse Jackson, who had claimed the Sanford, Fla., police department "didn't even bother to put yellow tape around the murder scene when he died—that's how much the police did to find out what happened to this young boy."

[ SEE THE POLICE REPORT ]

After officers discovered Martin's body, the report states that they unsuccessfully attempted to revive him.

According to the report, Sanford police spent more than seven hours at the scene. They interviewed six witnesses, whose names were redacted from the report. The partial report contains information from the first two officers to arrive at the scene.

The first to arrive was officer Timothy Smith. From Smith's report:

"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."

"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SF was attending to Zimmerman, I overheard him state, 'I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.' At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place."

___________________________________________________
Wonder why Jesse Jackson and other "civil rights activists" want to create hate by fabrication? It makes them rich, doesn't it? I guess healing between blacks and whites is just about the worst thing that can happen to them. I really despise their role in this.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 06:42 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
It protects anyone who is criminally assaulted.

Race is immaterial.

There may be one or two cases a year in which someone who assaults a black person based solely on race lays claim to the protection of this law.

Hell, make it a hundred and it still doesn't match up with the rate of black on black assualts.

Blacks are not killing their fellow blacks because they are degraded animals. It's far more complex a matter and this is why the Jacksons and Sharptons run from this problem.

I believe that irrespective of your personal history, you can overcome it and flourish and succed.

I have and I don't t think I'm superior to blacks who have had it rough. There are plenty of blacks who have had it rougher than I did and achieved more than I have.

If, however, you cling to the White Man's Racism as a child clings to a security blanket, you will never achieve much of all.

Fu*k The Man by achieving. If it takes just a bit more to do so than you are no different than members of many other minority communities.

Unfortunately, it seems that it is part of human nature to look for excuses to not strive, and this has only become that much more material in a world where you can, thanks to the government, survive your lack of motivation.

Jackson and Sharpton get what they want and the average black returns to the life previously lived with no change what-so-ever.

Sometimes you do everything right and you still get f*cked, but that's life...it isn't perfect, it can't be scripted by the well intentioned and it is what it is. It's happened to me and I came very close to giving up, but in the end it's all about what you, the individual, are capable of doing and what sh*t you're willing to take.

The Civil Rights Movement resulted in enormous benefits for American blacks, but unfortunately nothing that is good cannot result in a bad consequence.

For the Civil Rights Movement it was blacks embracing victimhood as the central definition of their identity.

What a tragedy that King died before his time, because I am sure that he never would have tolerated this corruption of his teachings.



Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 06:47 pm
@FreeDuck,
Which is why I didn't use them in my response, so climb down from your high horse.

And what might these facts be. because a lot of people of good faith haven't recognized them.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 06:48 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
no liberal me, just a cynic

and i don't care if they lie, i wouldn't believe them if they told the truth

Lash
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 06:56 pm
This mindset is running through the halls at NBC... and probably splicing 911 tape.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/toure-apologizes-piers-morgan-meltdown-152149682.html

0 Replies
 
 

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