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The politics of hoodie wearing

 
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 12:34 pm
@parados,
I've been in more than a few conversations here and elsewhere that impressed upon me that race is a dated social construct. We've all been confronted with boxes on forms that cite Hispanic as a race, or that feature this categorization: RACE/ETHNICITY, as though they are interchangeable. Because they are becoming obsolete...

This came up first in a google search:
"A race is a biological subspecies or variety of a species, consisting of a more or less distinct population with anatomical traits that distinguish it clearly from other races. This biologist's definition does not fit the reality of human genetic variation today. We are an extremely homogenous species genetically. As a matter of fact, all humans today are 99.9% genetically identical, and most of the variation that does occur is in the difference between males and females and our unique personal traits. This homogeneity is very unusual in the animal kingdom. Even our closest biological relatives, the chimpanzees have 2-3 times more genetic variation than people. Orangutans have 8-10 times more variation.

"It is now clear that our human "races" are primarily cultural creations, not biological realities. The commonly held belief in the existence of human biological races is based on the false assumption that anatomical traits, such as skin color and specific facial characteristics, cluster together in single distinct groups of people. They do not. There are no clearly distinct "black", "white", or other races."

http://anthro.palomar.edu/ethnicity/ethnic_1.htm

Of course, you knew this - you just seemed to want to focus on minutae to try to derail my point. Fine. There are likely some who feel I'm doing the same thing.

I guess if you continue to throw out this useless argument, I can c and p this in response.

Z is a person of color, regardless of what you say. He has not had the white cultural experience, and therefore is not culturally white, and according to current thinking cannot be considered "white."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/trayvon-martin-case-leads-to-multiple-embarrassments-for-nbc-msnbc/

THIS is disturbing, and in the same vein as the sudden "new white Hispanic" race/ethnicity issue.

And, yes. A lapse on toe-ing/towing, as I envisioned you carrying Democrat water.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 12:36 pm
Finn, when you find it - although I believe racism played a role in what Zim did - be wary of the news org you choose, and what you hear. NBC was caught doctoring the tape. Zim should probably do time for what he did, but I hope he sues NBC first.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 12:45 pm
@Setanta,
I hope you'll think about this more, test it and acknowledge the anomaly.
Setanta
 
  6  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 12:48 pm
@Lash,
What anomaly? You were the one who came dashing in here, claiming Zimmerman is "a man of color" (as if there were at all relevant). Even were that true, which i don't think it is, it doesn't mean he was not motivated by racism. Whether or not he were motivated by racism, however, is not the point. The point is that he shot an unarmed kid, and the police have tried to blow it off. That's what matters.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 12:53 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

What anomaly? You were the one who came dashing in here, claiming Zimmerman is "a man of color" (as if there were at all relevant). Even were that true, which i don't think it is, it doesn't mean he was not motivated by racism. Whether or not he were motivated by racism, however, is not the point. The point is that he shot an unarmed kid, and the police have tried to blow it off. That's what matters.


Well, it's at least right up there with Zimmerman getting to sue the media.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 12:55 pm
Maybe he can get a ghost writer and come out with a book about his harrowing ordeal.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 12:58 pm
@Setanta,
I think ALL the facts are relevant. You never struck me as a person who intentionally turned a blind eye to facts.

I'm interested in every aspect of what happened.

I also hate propaganda. This case is spreading it thick. I want to speak against it when I recognize it. I don't think we should be so easily manipulated.

Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:00 pm
@snood,
You support media doctoring 911 tapes and releasing them as if they were unaltered? All news-oriented 911 tapes, or just in this case?
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:01 pm
@Setanta,
He can be guilty of your worst suspicions, and still not deserve to have his words twisted by a major news org. They aren't above the law any more than Z is. It's ok with you?
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:02 pm
@Lash,
Your response assumes that it is a "fact" that Zimmerman is "a man of color." Please, don't think i accept all premises offered without question, any more than i would turn a blind eye to what can reasonably be called facts. Zimmerman looks white to me, and so does his daddy. I've seen Italians and Spaniards with darker skin than those boys have.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:06 pm
@Lash,
What the hell is this all about? You have no idea what my "worst suspicion" might be, and i have made absolutely no comment about what any news organization has or has not done to "twist" anyone's words. You are employing a straw man--i guess you have me confused with someone else. You need a score card--ya can't tell the players without a score card.

All i have said is that he shot an unarmed kid, and that the police have attempted to blow that off. Do you deny either of those claims?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:18 pm
@Setanta,
I did believe that until this morning. I practically convicted him based on what I thought he said to the 911 dispatch. I feel really manipulated by the media, and I'm reserving further mistakes in judgment until the facts come out.

I was assuming that your (I should have said "our" - apologies) worst suspicions were that Zim followed this kid, forced a confrontation and shot him.

I offered a link a page back about NBC's acknowledgment that they doctored Zim's 911 call. I'm sorry. I thought you read it, and discounted it's importance.

I'm really personally shocked by it.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:24 pm
@Lash,
...and actually, the Jon Stewart clip that FreeDuck brought did point a finger to this weird grey area of "benefit of the doubt," and who gets to exercise that. Even though it was a comic routine - the crux of who invokes it -- and who gets it-- should be under intense scrutiny.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:28 pm
@Lash,
I read it, i just hadn't commented on it. To my mind, the salient fact is that he shot an unarmed kid, and the police took a casual attitude.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:37 pm
I'll add it to the conversation. Another article about NBC's doctoring of Zimmerman's 911 call.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/03/bozell-nbc-investigating-itself-for-doctoring-trayvon-tapes-like-nixon-investigating-the-watergate-tapes/

This miscarriage of the public trust had made my mind up about Zimmerman. I'm furious that I was manipulated to this degree. I wonder if this has any effect on others following the case.

Excerpt:

Media Research Center president Brent Bozell denounced NBC’s decision to internally investigate the dishonest editing of 911 tapes from the night of Trayvon Martin‘s shooting death. Bozell thinks NBC’s parent company, Comcast, should conduct the investigation.

“This is a massive breach of the public trust,” Bozell said in a statement. “NBC is guilty of dishonestly fanning the flames of racial hatred in America by doctoring tapes. NBC cannot be trusted with the investigation.”

The edited tape made it appear that George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch member who shot and killed Martin, voluntarily informed the 911 operator that he believed Martin was black. In fact, the operator asked Zimmerman to identify Martin as either “black, white or Hispanic,” to which he responded, “he looks black.”


Lash
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 01:59 pm
@Lash,
...and I guess, for anyone who actually doesn't know why Z's "color" is an issue to me and likely others: if Zimmerman had been the one who was shot - and the shooter was white, Zimmerman would be loudly proclaimed as Hispanic in these pages and the major news orgs.

Lets use the same brush in each instance. Fairness. Honesty.

Intentionally fanning racial hatred, to me, is a crime. Those of us who are heartened by gains in fellowship will likely make noise when others seek to capitalize on events like this. I don't like to see brilliant people fall into factions when the stakes are so high.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 02:03 pm
Your source is questionable, Sofia. It's obviously a very conservative site--read the "About Us" and look those boys up. Now, that said, yes, i consider NBC's action despicable. However, as i have not condemned Zimmerman as a racist, it isn't really relevant to my position.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 02:09 pm
@Setanta,
I hesitated to reply because I don't want to seem aggressive, but I have to ask you and others:

Why shut off inquiry further from what you consider salient points? I agree that this child's death and the preposterous, seemingly unfair police response are the primary points. I just think there's so much more to see and learn.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 02:11 pm
wait, a news organization acted like completely reprehensible douchebags?

call the papers

ummm, on second thought
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 02:15 pm
@Setanta,
Thank you for answering. I will research other sources.
0 Replies
 
 

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