The politics of hoodie wearing

@parados,

Quote:

Mugged? Zimmerman was mugged?

Frankly, I wouldn't shoot someone that had hit me. I don't see that level of threat there that you think is.

I did not say that George Zimmerman was mugged. I used that as an example, indicating if you were being mugged how you might react in some level of self defense. In a mugging, you might well have your head smashed into the cement.

I don't know if the shooting was a reaction to being hit, which would not merit the bullet, or if it was the reaction to the alleged slamming of Mr.Zimmerman's head into the cement.

Since you seem to void of intelligence to understand that, let's try a different scenario for you.

Parados is out for a walk, a man comes along and knocks into Parados. It's accidental.
Parados falls backwards or to the side or wherever.

The stranger steps forward, he reaches forward, Parados pushes back. The stranger falls on top of Parados. Parados tries pushing him off, maybe even says 'hey, get off me.' The stranger starts but doesn't have a firm start, comes back down on Parados. Parados is nervous and pushes hard. The stranger takes it as a being hit and grabs Parados by the ears and thrashes Parados's head into the cement. Parados feels nervous....at least Parados should feel nervous. Parados reaches to the back of the head, realizes that hey, it's only a trickle of blood, and lets the head bash continue. Or Parados fights back. The stranger suddenly gets up realizing that they are in danger or that they did something wrong and starts to leave. They turn to indicate they are sorry.

Now at this time, the person on the ground (Parados) wonders how they can fight back an additional attack...or maybe in the case of Parados just lies there hoping the end will be swift and with little to no pain.

Quote:

Frankly, I wouldn't shoot someone that had hit me. I don't see that level of threat there that you think is.

I didn't say shooting was the answer for any of it, and especially not if it was just one hit. Not having been there, and not being George Zimmerman, I don't know what happened or what caused him to make the decision to shoot. Were you there Parados? Well, were you? You seem to think you know more about this than the rest of us.

As to the threat level, no, I don't think a simple hit/punch was that great a threat. Once more, I was not there, so I don't know what happened next. I thought I'd established the 'we don't know' bit in my earlier post, when indicating in response to something you'd written regarding the story of what happened changing daily (in the media). Of course, I've seen now that you pick and choose which parts you will respond to, taking 3 words and making it appear as if it were the entire post or that it reveals the entire context.

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Your scenario is completely out there. I would never react as you indicate. And it has nothing to do with the known facts in this case.

The problem is more than just Zimmerman's reaction to whatever happened. Why was he armed to begin with? Why was he so poorly trained that he resorted to the use of his gun? Why does the law exist that allows him to be armed? Why does the law exist that allows him to shoot someone without consequences or even questions being asked?

Zimmerman may be as much a victim in this case as Trayvon. But in Zimmerman's case it has more to do with society letting him get to this point.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

So I think that we need to have a serious conversation, not only about Trayvon Martin – and I won’t take anything away from that discussion – but the thousands of people who are killed all across the United States of America – black, white, Latino, Asian, anybody else – (it) is a serious national issue that deserves a serious national discussion,”
Nutter said.

I think he's right. The US is a very violent place. Why is that, do you think?

4 Replies

@Ceili,

Quote:

I think he's right. The US is a very violent place. Why is that, do you think?

Because we are very sick. We teach that greed is good and that taking advantage of people who are environmentally challenged is part of the American dream.

Some people are afraid that we may come to their country next, if it is in our interest.

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@Ceili,

Quote:

I think he's right. The US is a very violent place. Why is that, do you think?

Genetics.

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@Ceili,

We like violence

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Why are you posting the CNS version of this event? Come on, I thought you were smarter than that Finn. As you might expect, real news sources have quite a different take on the event.

Quote:

"How is it possible that thousands of black people are killed every year and no one says a word?" he asked. "If it's just black people, it doesn't register on the radar screen. Trayvon was assassinated."

http://articles.philly.com/2012-03-30/news/31261516_1_antiviolence-vigil-candlelight-vigil-florida-teenager-trayvon-martin

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I post this article especially for Parados and Lash...

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/04/conservatives_baffled_at_idea_of_white_hispanic_people/

Conservatives baffled at idea of white Hispanic people

"...OK, guys. Here’s the thing. I know all of you don’t actually give a single **** about ethnic identity and are in fact simply trolling as part of a pathological need to deny the existence of racism, but “Hispanic” is not a race.
The U.S. Census has a handy, easy-to-remember definition: “‘Hispanic or Latino’ refers to a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race.”

If “white” means “descended from Europeans” then guess what? A lot of people from Mexico, Cuba, Puerto Rico and South and Central America are white, even though they speak Spanish and you are racist against them...."

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@snood,

Hehehehehehe . . .

0 Replies

@Ceili,

Quote:

I think he's right. The US is a very violent place. Why is that, do you think?

Interesting question....maybe because it's one of the only nations on earth that is made up of ALL NATIONALITIES living together - I mean, we're Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Mexican, blah, blah, blah....and on and on and on and there's this concept behind the whole thing about freedom - and you know the people from 'your' countries who emigrated from 'your' or 'their own' countries were basically rebels and pioneers and seeking freedom.

It's so ******* funny to me the way you people from other countries try to paint us as fundamentally different from you all in some way. Last Thanksgiving the guys in the prison were all on my back about the 'Americans' who stole North America from the natives and I said, 'Oh yeah - well, guess what - the pilgrims were ******* BRITISH!'
My ancestors were Welsh and Irish and they didn't arrive in the new world until well after the war of Independence- so they were YOUR ancestors who did that **** - NOT MINE!
In fact - one of my ancestors is native - Cherokee - from North Alabama.

Give me a break with your sanctimonious - 'Oh - why are Americans more violent?'
We're you. All of those who decided to come here for a better life.

Give me a break.

1 Reply

@aidan,

aidan wrote:

Quote:
I think he's right. The US is a very violent place. Why is that, do you think?

Interesting question

I think the interesting question is why other countries with similar demographics don't have more similar crime rates.

Ceili and I are both posting from Canada. The old joke was always that while the U.S. was a melting pot, Canada was a tossed salad - a cultural mosaic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Mosaic

(turns out it didn't start as a joke)

The basics in terms of who settled the U.S. and Canada are quite similar. Why are the results - in terms of crime rates - so very different?

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Really? So the demographics of Canada are comparable to those of the US?

That's now how I'd interpret this data in terms of comparable data as per US/Candada:

Quote:

Population 33,910,000
313,232,000
USA has 9.2 times more people.

Age Structure (2011 est.)1
0-14 yrs: 15.7%
15-64 yrs: 68.5%
65 yrs +: 15.9%
0-14 yrs: 20.1%
15-64 yrs: 66.8%
65 yrs +: 13.1%
USA has a slightly younger population.

Population Growth Rate1
0.79% growth
0.96% growth
USA has a 17% higher growth rate.

Birth Rate (2011 est.)1
10.28 births / 1,000 population
13.83 births / 1,000 population
USA has a 25.7% higher birth rate.

Death Rate (July 2011 est.)1
7.98 deaths / 1,000 population
8.38 deaths / 1,000 population
USA has a 4.8% higher death rate.

Net Migration Rate (2011 est.)1
5.65 migrants / 1,000 population
4.18 migrants / 1,000 population
Canada has a 26% higher migrant rate.

Sex Ratio (2011 est.)1
0.98 male/female
0.97 male/female
Canada has a 1% greater male population.

Ethnic Groups
White: 83.5%

Asian: 10.5%

Native: 3.7%

Black: 2.3% (2006 est.)4
White: 81.2%

Black: 13.1%

Asian: 4.7%

Native: 1.0% (2008)5
Canada has 2.3% more Whites, 2.2 times more Asians, and 3.7 times more Natives. USA has 5.7 times more Blacks. All per capita. See below for further information.

Languages (spoken at home) (2006)
English: 66.5%

French: 21.9%

Chinese: 1.2%

Spanish: 0.7%4
English: 80.3%

Spanish: 12.2%

Chinese: 0.9%

French: 0.7%5
USA has 13.8% more English speakers, and 17.4 times more Spanish speakers. Canada has 31.3 times more French speakers and 0.3% more Chinese speakers. All per capita.

Religions1
Roman Catholic: 42.6%

Protestant: 23.3%

Other: 18.1%

None: 16% (2001)
Protestant: 51.3%

Roman Catholic: 23.9%

Other: 20.8%

None: 4% (2007)

Canada has 18.7% more Roman Catholics, and 12% more non-religious people. USA has 28% more Protestants. All per capita.

Literacy (2003)1
99%
99%
No discernible difference.

Married as % of population (2010)2
53%
59%
USA has a 6% higher married population.

Divorced as % of population (2010)2
5%
6%
USA has a 1% higher divorced population.

Foreign-born Population as % of population (2007)2
20.1%
13.6%
Canada has a 6.5% higher foreign-born population.

Urbanization (2010)1
81%
82%
USA is 1% more urbanized. (Note: Urban areas are defined differently by each country, and thus not entirely comparable.)

Top Three Major Cities Population (2009)1
Toronto:
5,377,000

Montreal:
3,750,000

Vancouver:
2,197,000
New York Metro:
19,300,000

Los Angeles Metro:
12,675,000

Chicago:
9,134,000
All of the USA's top 3 major cities are larger than Canada's, with the largest city (New York) having 3.6 times more people than Canada's largest city (Toronto).

Maybe it has to do with the higher rate of urbanization - isn't that where most of the crime and violence occurs in the US?

2 Replies

@aidan,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

The U.S. and Canada were settled by the same basic groups.

There are now more different cultures with a significant profile in Canada.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Yeah - or maybe you'd like to blame it on the fact that we have so many more black people.

You guys are just so much better than us...that's just the truth- aint it?

I thank god all the time I'm American though - at least I don't have to look at everyone else as if I'm innately better than them/.

2 Replies

@aidan,

aidan wrote:

You guys are just so much better than us...that's just the truth- aint it?

No. Just different, and I find the differences really interesting.

I'm apparently not the only person who finds it interesting

Quote:

Much study has been done of the comparative experience and policies of Canada with its southern neighbour the United States, and this is a topic of intense discussion within Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada

specific to the case under discussion

Quote:

Approximately 70 percent of the total murders in the U.S. are committed with firearms, versus about 30 percent in Canada.

~~~

Again, two countries started out in very similar ways and then diverged quite significantly on a social/political level. I'm curious about how that happened.

0 Replies

@aidan,

aidan wrote:

Yeah - or maybe you'd like to blame it on the fact that we have so many more black people.

what? where do you get this kind of thing?

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

I don't know - the only basic differences I read in the demographics are that:

a) you have significantly more French speaking people than we do
b) we have significantly more Spanish speaking people than you do
c)we have significantly more black people than you do
d)our urban areas are significantly larger than yours are

Which one of those four differences would you like to attribute your social and cultural differences to?

I'm asking?

Myself, I'd attribute it to the fact that our urban areas are larger and you all don't have the history of slavery and black/white enmity that the US does. I mean, working in a prison, I am aware that poverty correlates with criminality.
But if you want to attribute it to the fact that Canadians are just flat out more civilized than Americans - whatever.

I still thank GOD my ancestors emmigrated to America as opposed to the Australia or Canada.

3 Replies

@aidan,

Wow, bitchy much? Feeling sorry for your self, here a tissue, go blow it out your sensitive, prissy nose. It was a question not only posed by me, but by the pastor in the article!
Please show me were I slandered the US and blamed anything on blacks people. You need to take a midol and be a wee bit less hyper.
The US is a violent place, the stats prove it.. I'm wondering why? Don't you? Isn't that exactly what the pastor asked you to do???
Why is every time someone asks a question about the US and some uptight american doesn't want to look at the answers, we get these stupid temper tantrum. Whine, whine whine, if you don't like us, go **** yourself attitude.
It's a valid question and since we live next to you, violence is becoming more common here. What can we do to change the results. Certainly, ignoring the problem hasn't done our neighbours to the south much good.
Have another hissy fit and bury your head in the ground. You're not helping the conversation. I'm sure there are nations, right now on bended knee thanking GOD your ancestors didn't immigrate to their shores.. Whatever.
Anyone have a better answer than the woes me bullshit?

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

I still thank GOD my ancestors emigrated to America as opposed to the Australia or Canada.

and Canada is very glad too

1 Reply

@aidan,

That is based on what could well be and likely is an erroneous assumption that the difference is because of demographics.

Urban areas always have a higher murder rate.
But guns are more readily available in the US than they are in Canada. Surprisingly, the availability of guns can NOT be the reason for the difference.

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