37
   

The politics of hoodie wearing

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 06:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I for one have little interest in what Zimmermans motives might have been, because they don't matter. The central point is was the killing justified, which means did Zimmerman need to use deadly force in order to preserve his bodily health....or not, as I think is much more likely.
Few people will choose to murder total strangers
when thay know that the police will arrive within a few seconds or a few minutes
and find him with the bloody corpse. Tell me that I 'm rong.





David
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 06:43 pm
In Florida, you don;t need to worry about the cops arriving. Kill the only other witness. Claim self-defense. You won't even go to jail.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 06:57 pm
@MontereyJack,
waste of ammunition
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 10:06 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
why didn't he just roll down the window and ask him what he was about?

Because he's lying through his teeth about being attacked in the street.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 10:36 pm
@DrewDad,
ossobuco wrote:
why didn't he just roll down the window and ask him what he was about?
DrewDad wrote:
Because he's lying through his teeth about being attacked in the street.
U r just fighting for political correctness,
regardless of the actual facts.

The idea that just b4 the police arrive on the scene because HE CALLED THEM,
and KNOWS that thay r a few seconds away (possibly, maybe, under their distant observation),
will choose to gratuitously murder a total stranger is beyond absurd.

( This is to say nothing of the unknown number of residents
of the gated community, including blacks, that might all be witnessing what Mr. Z does. )




David
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 10:55 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Zimmerman acted in such a way as to precipitate a confrontation that never needed to occur in the first place and when it didn't progress according to how he had seen or planned it in his mind's eye and he thought he was losing control of the situation he acted impulsively and violently resulting in the death of an innocent and unarmed young man who was minding his own business in his own neighborhood and doing a favor for his brother by bringing him a snack.

This is the aftermath (that goes beyond politics in my mind).

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/aidan_010/2012-04-03T035254Z_3_CBRE8311JOL00_RTROPTP_2_USA-FLORIDA-SHOOTING-PROBE.jpg
(This is a picture of Trayvon's mother, father, and brother in the aftermath of his gratuitous murder).

How politically correct is this David?

How many families like this do you need or want to see before you take guns out of the hands of people who would use them as power against others who are just minding their own business?

This guy shouldn't have been put in charge of anyone's safety. I wouldn't be surprised if he was more excited by being a part of the whole thing because the police were coming and thought to himself - 'If I don't act quickly and subdue this kid - I won't be the hero in this scenario'.
Why do you expect rational thought and behavior from someone who goes looking for trouble over and over again - as he has proven himself to have done ?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 10:56 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
The idea that just b4 the police arrive on the scene because HE CALLED THEM,
and KNOWS that thay r a few seconds away (possibly, maybe, under their distant observation),
will choose to gratuitously murder a total stranger is beyond absurd


Yep, which is why we can know that this black kid almost certainly decided to take out his bad mood on Mr Zimmerman, a move that turned out to be a BIG mistake.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 11:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
Oh yeah - now you have evidence of a bad mood despite the fact that he was about to watch a basketball game with his brother and was talking on the phone with his girlfriend while taking a walk to do someone a favor.

You're so full of ****. His 'mistake' was being black (as you noted by calling him a 'black kid') and walking through a gated community in Florida that was being patrolled by a wanna-be policeman who didn't quite make the grade to be the real thing and made up for HIS inadequacies and insecurities (and probable life-long resulting 'bad mood' )with a gun.

You just said at the top of the page that the force Zimmerman used was probably excessive and not justified - and now you make allowances for it because the kid might have been in a bad mood.

You're just an idiot.

God forbid - but how would you feel if your kid got shot for exhibiting a 'bad mood' when someone accosted them for no reason? Would you call it 'their mistake' then?

You make me sick.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 11:09 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
Oh yeah - now you have evidence of a bad mood despite the fact that he was about to watch a basketball with his brother and talking on the phone with his girlfriend while taking a walk to do someone a favor


He was only there because dear old dad decided that he would have too much fun if he spent his school suspension time at home with his buddies and his electronics....so ya, we can fairly assume that this kid was in a bad mood after being dragged to DOD's GF's house in a ******* gated community with a bunch of pricks who dont like black folks much.

Quote:
You just said at the top of the page that the force Zimmerman used was probably excessive and not justified - and now you make allowances for it because the kid might have been in a bad mood
I am relatively sure that Zimmerman was wrong and that this black kid should not have ended up dead, but I also believe that what went down that day was much more complicated than advertised, with mistakes being made by both.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2012 11:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
See, unlike you - I don't assume anything. Maybe he loved his Dad and was happy to be able to see him. His brother was there as well- maybe he was enjoying that. Maybe he was looking forward to the basketball game.
I also don't assume that all the white people who live in gated communities hate black people and are pricks.
I mean, his Dad chose to live in this community. Can we assume now that the father is a self-hating masochist who enjoys living somewhere where it is possible and/or as you see it, probable, that he and his family will be looked down upon by their neighbors?

If someone came up to me and tried to question me about what I was doing as I was walking along and minding my own business - I'd probably develop a bad mood too.

This boy didn't make any mistake.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 12:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes they are, and I'm not asserting that the whole matter is settled based on the testimony of this one witness. However, the one witness, even if she is sketchy is more reliable that the conclusions being drawn by people with a political ax to grind and who don't know all the facts.

It may yet be proven that Zimmerman is guilty of murder and a murder based on racism, but no one can say they know that's what happened at this point in time.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 12:17 am

All decedent had to do was be polite.
There 'd have been no violence.





David
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 02:09 am


Interesting you say that David - when we lived in the US, I used to tell my interracial son (caucasian/african american) to be polite and cooperative with any police officer who stopped him to avoid exactly this sort of outcome through any confusion or misunderstanding.
But I know I was dealing with the issue as a double standard because any cop who stopped me (a white woman) without due cause - I feel and have always felt that I don't have to be particularly cowed or polite or compliant until they tell me what the hell it is they want.

So, how do you know that Trayvon could have avoided his violent and unnecessary death by simply being polite? And why should anyone have to justify walking in their own neighborhood? If someone came up to me and asked me what I was doing as I walked around my parents' neighborhood, I'd say, 'What's it to you - I'm taking a walk - mind your own business.'
I know that I'd not feel inclined to be polite to someone who was being nosy or bossy or intrusive.

This man, Zimmerman was seeking confrontation. He had a chip on his shoulder. It's obvious from his own words. I'm not even sure if it matters whether or not he was racist himself, or that anyone believes this whole thing escalated because of the race of the boy involved.
I think it was more due to the thirst for power and authority this hotheaded loser displayed.
He was constantly inserting himself into these sorts of situations - looking for a fight and an excuse to exercize authority on the streets.

This boy stumbled into the wrong person - not the other way around. The boy wasn't the threat. This pseudo authoritarian hothead was the threat - especially to young black men walking in white neighborhoods at night.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 02:29 am
@aidan,
I can address it in more specific detail
in the later part of this afternoon or evening.

In my opinion, based on the published facts,
I believe that decedent attacked Mr. Z from behind
and was slamming his head against the sidewalk -- decidedly rude.

The victim gave him a 1 gun salute.
( I 'm wondering whether he tried to snatch Z 's gun. )





David
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 05:05 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
conclusions being drawn by people with a political ax to grind

That's rich, that is.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 05:29 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
In my opinion, based on the published facts,
I believe that decedent attacked Mr. Z from behind
and was slamming his head against the sidewalk
-- decidedly rude.

Really? Attacked from behind? Then why and how are the injuries from the alleged head slamming on the back of George Zimmerman's head? If Zimmerman was attacked from behind then the injuries would be on his face.

Or,are you surmising that George Zimmerman was attacked, spun around, then was clocked, had his nose broken (although it may have just felt like that to him), and then had his head slammed repeatedly against the cement?


Quote:
The victim gave him a 1 gun salute.
( I 'm wondering whether he tried to snatch Z 's gun. )

Since you seem to be in on all the details, maybe you can tell me how George Zimmerman was able to draw his gun since he was supposedly being held down and repeatedly beaten. Or was his gun out the entire time? Or did he as you have wondered, feel the gun being yanked from his holster/pocket/crotch and then realizing he was about to be murdered, grabbed the gun, wrestled it out of the hand which was beating him and then Trayvon Martin jumped up, began to leave, turned back towards Zimmerman (remember he had to be facing Zimmerman since it is said to have been a chest shot) and that was when the fatal bullet flew from the gun. Trayvon then grabbed his chest with both hands felt the wound, and fell forward. (remember, the reports say that Trayvon Martin was found face down with his hands under himself)

0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 05:33 am
@aidan,
Quote:
See, unlike you - I don't assume anything


Sorry to break this news to you; but, you have assumed lots of things about this case. Stop pretending to be better than the rest of us, because, you aren't.


Additionally, stop referring to Trayvon Martin as 'this boy'. He was a young man, give him that respect.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 09:30 am
@parados,
Quote:
It certainly is a changing story. Trayvon was on top of him. Trayvon struggled for the gun. Trayvon turned to come back to beat him up some more? Which story will it be tomorrow?

Yes it is which shows we still do not know what happened, although many people seem to think they know every last detail of what happened even though they have seen none of the physical evidence, or the bodies involved (Martin and Zimmerman).

Quote:
The problem is Zimmerman wasn't that injured from his "fight". You can argue all you want about 'bleeding' but it takes more than a little blood to make one fear for their life.
We don't really know, now do we? By the time he was brought to the station (in handcuffs by the way for those who keep saying he was never even taken in to the station) time had passed, the EMS had been there, police had talked with him a little, it wasn't like he just got his head knocked into something two seconds earlier, several minutes had already passed. I have had head injuries, and after a few minutes I've gotten my bearings back and although slightly dazed was able to function and speak coherently.

Further, it's not about bleeding which makes a person fear for his life. The comments I made on bleeding were to indicate there does not have to be a lot of blood from a head trauma. What can happen, what may of happened to Mr.Zimmerman (if he was actually injured, and I say if because I don't know), is this- He was pushed, or punched and maybe fell backwards or maybe he was tackled down (we have been handed all scenarios). If as has been said in some reports his head was then banged against the sidewalk then he might very well have felt fear and in danger of losing his life. Perhaps he fell, then Trayvon made a move...either to help or to attack. In either case, perhaps George Zimmerman pushed him away or even hit him. Trayvon Martin then became angry, grabbed Zimmerman by the ears and smashed his head against the cement a couple or 3 times. Zimmerman at this point might well have felt he was in danger.

Or do you really believe Parados, that if you were mugged and the mugger smashed your head against the cement or a brick wall or anything else, you'd stop, feel around to your head and say "Doh gosh, I'm not bleeding much so my life must not be in danger." You would most likely feel your very being was being threatened with an uncomfortable end. You might very well fight back, if you could.

parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 10:04 am
@Sturgis,
Quote:

Or do you really believe Parados, that if you were mugged and the mugger smashed your head against the cement or a brick wall or anything else, you'd stop, feel around to your head and say "Doh gosh, I'm not bleeding much so my life must not be in danger."

Mugged? Zimmerman was mugged?

Frankly, I wouldn't shoot someone that had hit me. I don't see that level of threat there that you think is.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2012 10:20 am
Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter spoke at a Justice Department conference on youth violence in Washington, D.C., on April 2, 2012.
(CNSNews.com/Penny Starr)

(CNSNews.com) – Black-on-black violence is a “disease” that deserves a “national investigation,” Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter told a Youth Violence Prevention forum in Washington on Monday.

“It is a disease,” Nutter said. “It’s a rash, and if there were a rash killing a hundred and some odd young people on a daily basis we’d be doing something about it.”

Nutter said tainted food gets more attention than young people killing each other: “If there were five bad bags of spinach on the shelf somewhere, someone would put out a national alert. Every bag would be snatched off the shelves until someone figured out where they came from, what was going on, and there would be a national investigation.”

But, Nutter added, “There is no national investigation about this issue--that black people are killing black people all across the United States of America.”

Nutter noted that homicide is the leading cause of death for black men between the ages of 16 and 34. In Philadelphia last year, 75 percent of the city’s 316 murder victims were black men and 80 percent of the arrests involved black men, he said.

Nutter told CNSNews.com that the Trayvon Martin case has received a great deal of attention, partly because the two people involved were of different races. While Martin is black, the neighborhood watch captain suspected of shooting him is half white and half Hispanic.



“But the fact of the matter is, unfortunately, many African American boys are killed in America each and every day, most of which are never going to be on CNN, MSNBC – mostly not even on the local news in those particular jurisdictions.

“That doesn’t mean that those murders are any less shocking to our conscience -- it doesn’t mean that those lives are any less valuable, no matter who they are or what they were doing.

So I think that we need to have a serious conversation, not only about Trayvon Martin – and I won’t take anything away from that discussion – but the thousands of people who are killed all across the United States of America – black, white, Latino, Asian, anybody else – (it) is a serious national issue that deserves a serious national discussion,”
Nutter said.

The two-day Youth Violence Prevention conference organized by the Justice Department included various Cabinet secretaries as well as delegations from Chicago, Boston, Memphis, Detroit, San Jose, and Salinas, Calif.

 

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