Reality from the view point of theists

zzythepush wrote:

Sturgis is a sad pathetic half man, physically and intellectually stunted. In order to give his life meaning he follows me round voting down my posts, and screaming abuse, desperately trying to get my attention. I've got him on ignore so he just keeps trying that much harder.

He's more to be pitied than anything else. He's a cautionary tale on what happens when bitterness and vitriol take over your life.

ohhh.....

zzythepush wrote: Sturgis is a sad pathetic half man, physically and intellectually stunted. In order to give his life meaning he follows me round voting down my posts, and screaming abuse, desperately trying to get my attention. I've got him on ignore so he just keeps trying that much harder. He's more to be pitied than anything else. He's a cautionary tale on what happens when bitterness and vitriol take over your life.

ohhh.....

And that was the actual point north. ItP has skipped around on the board taking pot shots at absolutely everybody. Disagree with him or point out his being incorrect about something, he will attack. You'll note, he says he has me on ignore, yet he can't resist taking yet another poke at me. It's both sad and amusing at the same time watching him.

so can't you two resolve your differences , someone is at falt here lets get it done ( but not on this thread if you don't mind , guys ) meanwhile can we just get back to the OPs of this thread , I've had enough of the side tracks

If this is true then why don't everyone agree on what reality is?

Izzy wrote:

Quote:

Not everyone has a conscience

...I would say reality is different, because everyone's conscience is different....Some people act like they may not have a conscience, (such as a mass murderer or something) if it is true, then they do not know what reality is...Or whatever conscience they have, that tells them to do that, is reality to them...

because they equate conscience , with the existence of reality

which is wrong

reality , the without , or the outside reality ( the Universe and all within it ) came first before any conscience

how this is not obvious is puzzling

if we delve into what makes up conscience , the biological aggregation of molecules , and what they are made of and etc , to smaller and smaller levels , the chemical make up biological entities and then going even further back to the macro existence of this planet , our sun etc , we should see , all of us , the nessecary parts that were needed in order for any life forms to become , and then allow conscience to become

because they equate conscience , with the existence of reality

which is wrong

reality , the without , or the outside reality ( the Universe and all within it ) came first before any conscience

how this is not obvious is puzzling

if we delve into what makes up conscience , the biological aggregation of molecules , and what they are made of and etc , to smaller and smaller levels , the chemical make up biological entities and then going even further back to the macro existence of this planet , our sun etc , we should see , all of us , the nessecary parts that were needed in order for any life forms to become , and then allow conscience to become

because they equate conscience , with the existence of reality

which is wrong

reality , the without , or the outside reality ( the Universe and all within it ) came first before any conscience

how this is not obvious is puzzling

if we delve into what makes up conscience , the biological aggregation of molecules , and what they are made of and etc , to smaller and smaller levels , the chemical make up biological entities and then going even further back to the macro existence of this planet , our sun etc , we should see , all of us , the nessecary parts that were needed in order for any life forms to become , and then allow conscience to become

Sorry wanted to add a few things in there...

@north

Quote:

because they equate conscience , with the existence of reality

which is wrong

reality , the without , or the outside reality ( the Universe and all within it ) came first before any conscience

how this is not obvious is puzzling

if we delve into what makes up conscience , the biological aggregation of molecules , and what they are made of and etc , to smaller and smaller levels , the chemical make up biological entities and then going even further back to the macro existence of this planet , our sun etc , we should see , all of us , the nessecary parts that were needed in order for any life forms to become , and then allow conscience to become

But if there were no one with any conscience to observe any of this existence, then it is as good as non existence...and there is no such thing as reality, on any level....

Hmmmm...i'm curious about your post. Do you favor subjective description (which also requires language) over a collective response (including mathematics)? It doesn't seem to me that one isn't "reality". It's simply that both are contained within reality, and represent a limit-experience. It's not a case of the map being the territory, as all maps represent the territory with limited/ situational results.

Not to mention, since you regard the aesthetic dimension so highly, is not the concept of perspective derived from a mathematical concept? Is mathematics totally devoid of a spiritual aspect? Fido mentioned Pythagoras in an earlier post, i'd advise consider that example before answering...

Sorry, I don't understand your paragraph beginning with "Hmmmm" and ending with "results".
Yes, I do value aesthetic experience highly because experience is aesthetic (i.e., immediate and sensory)--especially before we pave it over with conceptualization.
I didn't know that "perspective"is derived from a mathematical concept? What concept is that?
No, I do not think mathematics is devoid of spiritual considerations. I suspect high level mathematical theoreticians get quite a spiritual charge from their work.