Reality from the view point of theists

Idiot.

In its proper place, a concept follows an object, and without an object true concepts, forms, idea, or notions are impossible... Speculation as to the nature of infinites does even rise to the level of true speculation which requires an object of speculation, since the root of the word means to look, and what can one see of infinites???...

Your assumptions and presumptions that objectivity exists when we do not have the object in hand, and are clearly dealing with infinites is a false predicate to all that follows... You want to treat reality, or existence, or even God as if an object, and you expect order based upon your experience, and so you surmise finitude out of nothing certain... Anyone and anyone else can state with certainty what are the obvious limits of knowledge even if the extent of knowledge is not relevent....And no one is stopping Scientists, based upon assumptions of order, from going step by step into the next great discovery...

There are limits to scepticism as one of my old professors pointed out... He told of one man seeing a field with many brown cow telling his companion that they were lovely brown cows only that have his companion reply that they were only brown on this side... No one is asking any scientist to not act upon his understanding of order, and to not take the next logical step... It simply does no good to think of infinites as conceivable when they are not, and the tendency of science is already sceptical, and breaks knowledge down into objective units that can be conceived, and builds upon that knowledge in the presumption of order.... They do not push it too far, and neither should you... Objective knowledge requires an object...

Your statement denying evidence against objective reality existing is a false charge because it is those making the claim for the existence of an objective reality as a positive fact who must prove it... To deny objectivity based upon the obvious is easy, but to deny the obvious requires proof, and you do not have it... You see the near side of the mountain called reality, and you presume an order making the near like the far side...Reality is much more vast than a mountain.. In fact, even of objects we can conceive of we do not know much... In trying to conceive of infinites without knowledge you limit knowledge, especially your own...

My hat is off to the originator of this thread. No thread title could have been better designed to reel in Frank and Setanta, who are drawn to any thread with "theist" in the title, while it was equally certain that Fresco would be sucked into any discussion heralded by the word "reality" (and like Mary and her persistent lamb, where Fresco goes his faithful Indian companion, JLN, is sure to follow). So bravo, reasoning logic, it was indeed a masterstroke of genius to come up with the title "Reality from the view point of theists." The next thread I start will be called "Theist realists and the reality of theism." It will be all about gardening.

Now can I stay?

Now you want to play the asshole. In another thread, i quoted Hesiod to make a point germane to the subject of the thread. Fido went into this truly wild discursus on Greece in Hesiod's lifetime--the only problem being, that just about everything he wrote was bullshit. I told him as much, and then opined that he had never even heard of Hesiod before he had read my post. He admitted as much, and then made a feeble attempt to defend this post, which was basically just **** he had made up. Eventually, his defense devolved to "well, it could have been like that." Fido almost never knows what the hell he's talking about, and he seems to think it's OK to just make **** up, to just wander around the intellectual wreckage of his mind. David claims that Fido has admitted to having serious mental health problems--he (David) claims that he (Fido) admitted as much in a post.

I don't know if that's true, and i don't care. I long ago told Fido that whenever he addresses me, my only response will be to point out that he is an . . .

Idiot.

I am saying again for the fifth time maybe that for anything to be considered objectively it must be possible first to consider it as an actual object... Infinites like Reality, or even Love, or Justice cannot be considered as objects so objective knowledge about them is impossible... Consider, Frank, that of all objects, it is possible to form an idea of them, and I mean a true idea, or form or concept that actually contains knowledge of the object such as the area of a pyramid, or the circumference of a circle even if such axiums as seem true of them cannot be proved true... The word res from which Re-s-ality comes means: thing... And it is upon our specific knowledge of things that we arrive at a quasi understanding of the causes and effects we can see in reality...To take this a step further and say that we know something is true of all of reality when it is an infinity is grasping at air... What we can say we know of the objects we can consider of reality does not represent any real knowledge, but is more like an analogy... It is better than nothing, but not enough to project any thing of value on to infinites like Reality or Existence... If people looking at the evident order around us find cause to believe in an ordering power, or God; then what is that to me??? People who need god find God, but I would rather have a blank space in my jigsaw puzzle than the wrong piece....Calling reality objective is the victory of certainty over truth, which is a smaller version of an infinite...

Fido:

My question was: “Are you saying that an OBJECTIVE REALITY is impossible?”

Your answer was:

Quote:

I am saying again for the fifth time maybe that for anything to be considered objectively it must be possible first to consider it as an actual object... Infinites like Reality, or even Love, or Justice cannot be considered as objects so objective knowledge about them is impossible... Consider, Frank, that of all objects, it is possible to form an idea of them, and I mean a true idea, or form or concept that actually contains knowledge of the object such as the area of a pyramid, or the circumference of a circle even if such axiums as seem true of them cannot be proved true... The word res from which Re-s-ality comes means: thing... And it is upon our specific knowledge of things that we arrive at a quasi understanding of the causes and effects we can see in reality...To take this a step further and say that we know something is true of all of reality when it is an infinity is grasping at air... What we can say we know of the objects we can consider of reality does not represent any real knowledge, but is more like an analogy... It is better than nothing, but not enough to project any thing of value on to infinites like Reality or Existence... If people looking at the evident order around us find cause to believe in an ordering power, or God; then what is that to me??? People who need god find God, but I would rather have a blank space in my jigsaw puzzle than the wrong piece....Calling reality objective is the victory of certainty over truth, which is a smaller version of an infinite...

Ummm…not trying to be a wise-ass here, Fido, but…

…does that translate to a “YES” or a “NO?”

Jesus H. Christ, Frank... ARE you losing it...

Quote:

Jesus H. Christ, Frank... ARE you losing it...

Not at all, Fido. I am trying to understand what you are saying (or almost saying).

Let’s try this again:

Are you saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be an OBJECTIVE REALITY?

Please stop telling me what you think REALITY is…or what you think we can or cannot conceive of it…or what Kant said about it.

There is a REALITY of existence.

Something is going on here…we all know that. Existence is here. Whatever is “going on here” is the REALITY of existence...whatever it is.

I am asking you if you are saying, “It is impossible for that REALITY to be an OBJECTIVE REALITY?”

I do not consider that to be a stupid question; an inappropriate question; a question that casts doubt on my sanity or intelligence…

…it is a reasonable question for this thread. It is being asked in earnest and with respect.

why though ?

what has objective reality have to do with this thread ?