Reality from the view point of theists

@Frank Apisa,

I get my information mostly from watching science documetaries. I don't know much about Fresco, other than he supports United, but he certainly sounds like those guys.

Logically my gut instinct tells me to agree with you, but the part of me that knows my limitations tells me to err on the side of caution. I will in reality accept what you're saying, but theoretically I will deny it.

Hows that for a cop out?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

For your info Frank, one of the guys running the large hadron experiments is due to give a talk to my group early May. I'll put your question for you. But as I understand it the "god particle" would account for a set of statistical events which are predicted by symmetry criteria in the equations covering what is called "the standard model" (of physical reality). The physicists are not so much interested in "proving its existence" as "having continued confidence in the standard model".

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Alright Frank, I've had a think how about this? Say you're right, and there is such a thing as objective reality, despite all the complications and variables, the term would be meaningless, because of all the complications and variables, nobody would be able to agree on what objective reality was.

2 Replies

@fresco,

Quote:

I think I have now given you (free of charge Smile ) a useful introduction to several contemporary issues surrounding the word "reality".

I do appreciate you showing me that and I do kinda see what you are saying and it appears to me that it is from a persons perceived perspective is what reality is.
To me that would be the subjective experience. I am not saying I am correct I am just trying to get the best understanding I can, about what you are sharing with me.

Do you have other examples of what you are thinking.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

(RL you might read this)
Izzy. My son is colour blind and confuses reds, greens and browns, When he was small he fell over on a muddy path and started screaming because he thought he was bleeding. That was "his reality" but the consensus (us ) assured him it was only mud and he accepted that "reality" by ceasing to scream, even though he was still in pain. From this you should be able to see that "reality" involves physiological receptivity, an external stimulus, and subsequent action and that the significance of the "external stimulus" is negotiable.

2 Replies

@fresco,

I can see that as being real if you are color blind but that is his subjected reality and it is not what I would have considered to be an objective reality.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

I get my information mostly from watching science documetaries. I don't know much about Fresco, other than he supports United, but he certainly sounds like those guys.

Logically my gut instinct tells me to agree with you, but the part of me that knows my limitations tells me to err on the side of caution. I will in reality accept what you're saying, but theoretically I will deny it.

Hows that for a cop out?

Not a cop out at all. Actually, a reasonable caution. I hope you continue to consider what has been discussed here by everyone involved.

0 Replies

@fresco,

Thank you, Fresco.

If you could, I would put the questions I asked you to them...and see how they would respond. I certainly would be more interested in their responses to them than to questions about a "god particle."

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Alright Frank, I've had a think how about this? Say you're right, and there is such a thing as objective reality, despite all the complications and variables, the term would be meaningless, because of all the complications and variables, nobody would be able to agree on what objective reality was.

Well...on most questions of great moment, Izzy, there is no agreement. Can you imagine agreement on "Is there a God?" "Is there life after death." "What was in existence before the singularity that lead to the Big Bang?" "Is this the only universe?"...and stuff of that sort.

Bit agreement is not especially important to the question of whether or not there is objective reality independent of agreement!

And whether or not it is meaningless...is subjective.

0 Replies

@fresco,

Quote:

Izzy. My son is colour blind and confuses reds, greens and browns, When he was small he fell over on a muddy path and started screaming because he thought he was bleeding. That was "his reality" but the consensus (us ) assured him it was only mud and he accepted that "reality" by ceasing to scream,

It was never "his reality"...it was what he accepted as the reality. The reality was that it was mud...and that reality was not changed by what he thought it to be.

What changed was not the reality...but his perception of the reality.

But I doubt you will acknowledge that in any meaningful way.

No problem...the discussion has been enjoyable despite the difficulties involved.

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

I can see that as being real if you are color blind but that is his subjected reality and it is not what I would have considered to be an objective reality.

It was not REALITY at all, RL...it was one young man's perception of the reality. The perception was wrong...but that did not change the Reality. Everyone involved could have perceived the mud to be blood...but it would have stayed blood nonetheless.

That is because Reality is objective...it is only perceptions and definitions of Reality that are subjective.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

If you were to die tomorrow and at your funeral a very large meteorite happen to strike earth, being that you were not alive to experience it, would it sill have been a reality or would it only be reality if you are there to experience it?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

It was not REALITY at all, RL...it was one young man's perception of the reality.

Are you saying that if someone ingest hallucinogenics and they happen to hear god talking to them it is not reality? What if they are able to do it without the hallucinogenics ?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

But without "consensus" (or adult methods of cross checking) how would he ever have known ? As far as he was concerned , he was bleeding. It seemed "objective " to him ! And by extrapolation, is the "external reality" for the species homo sapiens, with its limited set of sensory apparatus compared to other species "subjective" or "objective" ? ....or shall we drop that dichotomy ?

3 Replies

@fresco,

It seems that certainty within it self is unattainable, so the best we can do is get as close to reality as we can, but would you agree that there are some experiences that are closer than others to reality?

0 Replies

the thing is that theists don't go back far enough into Ancient History

theists build there ideas around a singular god

the thing is though that there were gods

0 Replies

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

If you were to die tomorrow and at your funeral a very large meteorite happen to strike earth, being that you were not alive to experience it, would it sill have been a reality or would it only be reality if you are there to experience it?

What are you saying here? The reality is independent of anyone's perceptions.

You cannot still be thinking I am on the side of the need to experience something in order for it to be real????? If so, you honestly have not been listening.

2 Replies

@reasoning logic,

RL...I am saying what I said.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

No I was just giving you more ammunition because I have not heard you shooting back much. Drunk

1 Reply

@fresco,

Fresco...your arguments here pretty much depend on a rather subtle form of argument from authority...

...and the argument from authority makes, in my opinion, the same mistake theists do in their analysis of existence. It over-values humans in the grand scheme of things.

For you to suggest that REALITY is dependent upon the agreement of humans...is to make humans much more than what they are. In fact, it makes this speck of cosmic dust called Earth much more important than what it is.

Unless, of course, the REALITY is that we humans are very important...and Earth is really an important element of overall existence.

Tiger shot his best round in competition ever today. My practice session at the course early this afternoon was a gem. Life is good.

0 Replies

Reality from the view point of theists

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know