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Brown v. The Board of Education: The Sequel

 
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 11:17 am
@aidan,
I don't get the feeling that he singled anyone out but I guess we don't really know at this point.

The reason Mo and I had the discussion on the word is because he heard it at school and came home to ask me what it meant. What do you think the teacher should have done if she had overheard the word being used? Ignore it?

Personally I think they should use the opportunity to educate the kids on the history of the word and the harm it can cause.

Mo has been in classes where adoption was discussed. He doesn't see being adopted as shameful so it didn't bother him.

If kids were passing around notes talking about bastards and the teacher went started a conversation about the changing nature of the word I wouldn't be upset.

"Bastard" is a great example of a word that has really lost all of it's original power.

boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 11:19 am
@msolga,
Absolutely it isn't constructive. The kids were using the word and the teacher called them on it.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 11:25 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I'm not sure whether I consider this a free speech issue, David.

People typically invoke the right to free speech when they're offering up opinions.

Putting the word nigger into context and giving it's history really isn't opinion.

I'll have to think on this a bit....

Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 11:33 am
@boomerang,
Definitely a teachable moment of an issue that has to be difficult under any circumstances. I wonder if it's possible the principal had other grievances with this teacher and just chose this opportunity to act on them.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 01:38 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
The reason Mo and I had the discussion on the word is because he heard it at school and came home to ask me what it meant. What do you think the teacher should have done if she had overheard the word being used? Ignore it?

I think any teacher who hears any derogatory racial word used should act firmly and swiftly - take the offending child aside, tell him or her in no uncertain terms that that sort of language will not be tolerated in the classroom, call the parent to let that parent know what sort of language their child is using and toward whom and tell the parents that they need to have a talk with their child, if only to let him or her know that that will not be tolerated at school and they need to stop using that sort of language.

My son also asked me what that word meant because one of his 'friends' called him that when he was six or seven and he came home and asked me what it meant.

I knew this child and I knew his mother and I knew she would be horrified and upset to learn her son had used this word toward my son, so I told her out of concern. She spoke to her son and he never used it again.
But I certainly would not have wanted the teacher to compound the sadness, hurt and embarrassement my son felt by making an issue of it in front of the entire class. And I can tell you my son wouldn't have wanted that to happen either- he didn't tell his teacher. He kept it to himself and told me precisely because he didn't want to be the focus of a big scene at school.

Quote:
Personally I think they should use the opportunity to educate the kids on the history of the word and the harm it can cause.

Right, if it's part of the curriculum and has been researched.
But this guy sounds like he was having an off the cuff conversation with children who were too young to participate or process it appropriately.
What was that **** about black people being killed in movies first all about? Was he trying to intimate that black people are less valued in society? Is that what he was telling these sixth grade children?
I'm sorry, but I'd like to at least KNOW who was telling my children what may be very hurtful information for them to hear - and yes- that sort of conversation might have a damaging and lasting effect on their view of themselves in the world and their resulting self-esteem. This guys sounds like an idiot- asking sixth grade kids why black people get to say 'nigger' while white people can't!
Who the hell wants to be able to say 'nigger'?
Give me a break.

Quote:
If kids were passing around notes talking about bastards and the teacher went started a conversation about the changing nature of the word I wouldn't be upset.

Good for you. I would be upset - and I wouldn't blythly start a conversation about that word either, because it's inappropriate at that age in school and because there may be a little twelve year old boy or girl who has a history that has made him or her feel sensitive to that word.
And the fact of the matter is, no one can look at Mo in a classroom and perceive that he was born out of wedlock (apparently-if you say so-I can't even bring myself to write 'bastard' in relation to a child here on this forum where he will never see it - much less talk about it in a classroom full of children). It's not obvious in the color of his skin or eyes or hair.
But they can look at my son and daughter and other black children and see that they're what some people might call 'niggers'.

Words like 'bastard' and 'nigger' are dehumanizing and devaluing and can have huge effects on those who are labelled as such. I would never minimize the damage words that might not apply to me personally might still have on people to whom they do apply.
I've seen the hurt and harm these specific words have inflicted on people. I would never trust just anyone to talk to my child about them.
And certainly not off the cuff and in front of an entire classroom of children.

I've lived with black people and have taught for twenty years and I wouldn't want to lead this discussion. I cannot know what it feels like to be black. I cannot know what it feels like to be called this name and have it applied to me.

@Irish K
And in terms of the principal having a grievance against this teacher and making this up - that would mean to me that he was mentally ill. How would he make the following up?
Quote:
However, principal Gregory Mason, who walked in during the discussion, remembers things differently. He says Brown asked, "can anyone explain to me why blacks can call each other a n*****, and not get mad, but when whites do it, blacks get angry?" He also describes a bizarre-sounding conversation in which Brown asked "have you ever thought about why blacks are killed in movies first?" Then he allegedly "began to explain ‘how I've seen many movies where whites were killed first'" and "continued by stating that, ‘if you believe in this you are no better than the media's portrayal of blacks.'"


FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 02:13 pm
Hmmm, my opinion sort of depends on whose version of events I believe. If he really was having a constructive dialogue and the principal walked in and caught some of it out of context and overreacted, then I side with the teacher. If he was using it to push his own view and sort of imply that black people are racist (which is the vibe I get off of the principal's version) then I'd side against the teacher, at least as far as to say that he didn't do a very good job with that impromptu lesson. Either way I don't think it's a terribly big deal. It's not like he went off calling the kids the n-word.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 02:28 pm
Here's an editorial from the Chicago paper that sums it up very nicely, I think:
Quote:

As Joan Rivers likes to say, “Can we talk?”

Apparently not.

Not when it comes to the n-word. Not when it comes to talking to children about the ugliness of that word and its history and how it cuts like a knife.

And certainly not in a sixth-grade classroom in a Chicago public school, where a teacher with a record of commitment to progress for disadvantaged African-American children was suspended for five days for doing just that.

We may be wrong about this, but every indication is that the teacher, Lincoln Brown, was unfairly suspended back in October by the principal at Murray Language Academy for being the best kind of teacher — the kind who dares to teach the hardest stuff.

As the Chicago Sun-Times reported Friday, Brown has filed a federal lawsuit alleging that the principal and school violated his civil rights by suspending him without pay after he tried to teach his class “an important lesson in vocabulary, civility and race relations.”

As he told a Sun-Times reporter — and this would be entirely our point as well — “It’s so sad. If we can’t discuss these issues, we’ll never be able to resolve them.”

In his classroom on Oct. 4, Brown said, he got on to the topic of the n-word when one student passed a note to another student with a rap lyric that used the word. Brown, concerned that his students might not understand what a dangerous word that is, then talked to them about how that slur has been used historically and in literature, such as in Huckleberry Finn, and its use in different ways by black people and white people.

When the principal, Gregory Mason, walked into the class to listen in, Brown says, he assumed Mason appreciated the point of the lesson — kids have to understand the ugliness of this word — and approved. But two weeks later, Mason accused Brown of using “verbally abusive language to or in front of students.”

It helps to know who Lincoln Brown is. He is the son of a minister active in the civil rights movement. He was named for the president who signed the Emancipation Proclamation. He grew up in integrated Hyde Park, learned what it’s like to be in the minority as a white student at Kenwood Academy High School and has taught in black neighborhood schools for 21 years.

It helps to know, as well, that quality studies say the best way to teach children about race is to talk about it, openly and at an early age.

“Children see racial differences as much as they see the difference between pink and blue,” write Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman in the book NurtureShock . “But we tell kids that ‘pink’ means for girls and ‘blue’ is for boys. ‘White’ and ‘black’ are mysteries we leave them to figure out on their own.”

We owe it to our kids not to look away.

“Speak openly,” advises Dana Williams in a parenting handbook published by the Southern Poverty Law Center. “When we are honest with children about our country’s history of bigotry, sexism and stereo­types, we help prepare them to challenge these issues when they arise. A child who knows the racial history of the Confederate flag, for example, is less likely to brandish that symbol out of ignorance.”

Best we can tell, that’s all Lincoln Brown was trying to do.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 02:40 pm
@aidan,
What good does it do to act swiftly and firmly when a kid uses a word that they don't understand?

Young kids today have mostly been exposed to that word through popular music. How are they supposed to know it's wrong if we don't tell them? If we wait until they've already heard it and are using it it's almost too late. You can't blame a kid for doing something out of ignorance when we aren't even willing to talk about it.

I also believe that teachers need to grab such opportunities to discuss this kind of thing. "Research and approved curriculum" be damned. Asking them why something is okay or not okay to say helps them think things through. I doubt he was expecting an answer but was instead using as a launching pad for his discussion.

I don't think this conversation is over the heads of 11/12 year old kids.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 02:43 pm
@FreeDuck,
Hiya, FreeDuck! Long time no see.

I agree that more information is needed. That's why I said that based on what we know about it I reached the conclusion that I did.

I don't think it's a terribly big deal either but I'm not the one who got suspended for saying something that might have been taken out of context. It was a big enough deal to Brown that he's willing to fight to have it taken off of his record. More power to him.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 03:14 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
I also believe that teachers need to grab such opportunities to discuss this kind of thing.


I would have preferred it if he'd contacted the parents and hauled them in - have them explain why they haven't discussed this with their kids.
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 03:17 pm
@aidan,
I didn't say the principal made it up. A 5-day suspension without pay seems harsh for a first offense, though, unless there's some sort of zero-tolerance policy in place of which we're unaware. If he's a long-time teacher with an otherwise unmarred record, I fail to see why it's unreasonable for him to want to clear his name.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 03:34 pm
@boomerang,
So these kids are old enough to talk cogently about racism in our society, but you don't think they're old enough to know that the word 'nigger' is hurtful or what it means?

When I say swiftly and firmly, I'm not talking about yelling or screaming. I'm talking about ascertaining that the child does not remain ignorant as to what they may have said that is hurtful to someone else while also making it clear that that is not appropriate language to use in school and will not be tolerated.

And as far as the principal is concerned, maybe he had to act because a parent indicated that his or her child was upset by the discussion and wanted the situation addressed. What the principal said happened is yes, concerning to me, and I don't believe he'd engage in perjury in an effort to adress past grievances he may have had against this teacher- by the same token, it does make sense to me that the teacher would try to present what he did and said in the best light possible.

And great- this guy had parents who marched in the civil rights movement. Maybe his heart was even in the right place. But if he asked the questions he is said to have asked of sixth grade children and accused them of buying into the media's negative portrayal of black people - I'm sorry - I don't care what anyone says - I find that inappropriate.

It's amazing to me how some people are so concerned about any small thing that might have a hurtful or negative effect on their own child but can't understand that something that wouldn't bother their child might be hurtful to another child.

I don't have any problem with talking about race in a historical context but when it is approached from a negative and personal angle toward children during their school day, I do have a problem with that.

engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Feb, 2012 03:52 pm
I think the other part of this is that the teacher's comments are not being relayed through children who took what was said home, but through the principal who was in the classroom at the time. It's the principal's job to enforce policies at the school and he was acting on events that he directly witnessed. If the principal was in the room and decided the conversation was inappropriate, it's his job to address the situation.

I think the teacher would have done just as well by pointing out that the lyrics presented here are inappropriate and hurtful and let it go. I don't have any problem discussing these types of stories with my sixth grader and I think that sixth graders can handle these kinds of discussions but I see Aiden's points about addressing them in large groups where minority children might feel called out.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Feb, 2012 09:21 am
@ehBeth,
That's a good point.

But really, sometimes you just don't know you need to discuss something with your kids until you find yourself having to discuss something with your kids.

The other day Mo was playing a video game online with his friends and I overheard one of them say something like "let's go all 9-11 on them" and everyone else replied "yeah, 9-11". At dinner I explained to Mo why I thought that was such a bad and crazy thing to say -- that not only were the events themselves terrible but the fallout was equally terrible, that a lot of people could be hurt and offended by what he and his friends were saying. Mo was receptive to the conversation and hasn't repeated the phrase.

For all I know this is a common expression amongst his peers. If the teacher overheard it I wouldn't be upset if she addressed the group about it.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Feb, 2012 09:22 am
@aidan,
Quote:
So these kids are old enough to talk cogently about racism in our society, but you don't think they're old enough to know that the word 'nigger' is hurtful or what it means?


Yes, I do mean that.

Kids are exposed to the word mostly through rap lyrics. If someone doesn't tell them about the history of the word they could very well have no idea that the word is hurtful.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Feb, 2012 09:25 am
@engineer,
I don't disagree but I don't completely agree either.

I would imagine that the school has a policy of treating others with respect and educating kids about racism. It sounds to me like that's what the teacher was doing.

Is it really enough to say that something is hurtful without explaining why it hurts? Is "because I said so" really teaching?
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Feb, 2012 10:17 am
@boomerang,
My feeling about Mr.Brown, from what I've read so far is that he had good intentions and needed (or felt he needed) to discuss a topic. At the start he was doing fine.

Quote:
At the beginning of a grammar exercise in his sixth grade class, Lincoln Brown saw that his students were unsettled and arguing about the passage of a note which contained lyrics of a rap song. Lincoln Brown then conducted a discussion about how upsetting such language can be, attempted to give his own denunciation of the use of such language, and discussed how even such books as "Huckleberry Finn" were being criticized for the use of the "N-word."

So far so good.
Quote:
Brown says he was having an important discussion on the problems of racism, that students were "engaged" and "excited" and that "if we can't discuss these issues, we'll never be able to resolve them." He added that he would "never, ever use such a hurtful word" except as a way to help students think about and combat racism.
It's a very touchy subject with some. It needs to be addressed, discussed. A little heads up note to the parents might have been useful. Let them know that there will be a discussion on this very serious topic. Encourage parents/guardians to participate, bring in their own personal experiences.

As a topic for all 6th grade students, if there's more than one classroom of them, bring them into the auditorium or cafeteria and have a starting discussion with all of them, then have them return to their classroom and discuss, write an essay, tell what they've learned. Again, don't just jump into the topic out of nowhere, especially without some sort of lesson plan already developed. This is not a topic which should be so casually approached. Once more, planning, advisement to parents/guardians, possible participation of the adults as well, bringing in what they have experienced or not.




Quote:
However, principal Gregory Mason, who walked in during the discussion, remembers things differently. He says Brown asked, "can anyone explain to me why blacks can call each other a n*****, and not get mad, but when whites do it, blacks get angry?" He also describes a bizarre-sounding conversation in which Brown asked "have you ever thought about why blacks are killed in movies first?" Then he allegedly "began to explain ‘how I've seen many movies where whites were killed first'" and "continued by stating that, ‘if you believe in this you are no better than the media's portrayal of blacks.'

The first things Mr.Brown said were good for a discussion, after that he began to go off on what appears to be a vendetta against the media. Unfortunately, this could lead the students to go home and during the news turn to their parent/guardian and proclaim the news anchor or reporter to be a liar, because all in the media are liars.

Since Mr.Brown had started making statements about media portrayal and they are essentially the bad guys, he may well have next gone into a political tirade against one party or the other or a religion...I am grateful Principal Mason did do something, although, I feel he should have done it somewhat differently.

Quote:
It's hard to tell what Brown's point was with the above, but it certainly doesn't sound good. Mason responded by suspending him for five days for "using verbally abusive language to or in front of students" and "cruel, immoral, negligent or criminal conduct or communication to a student, that causes psychological or physical harm." Now Brown is suing the Chicago Board of Education in federal court (somewhat ironically, his case is called Brown v. Board of Education).

It certainly became difficult to know what Mr.Brown was doing. Therein is the problem. He decided to start in on a complicated topic without being prepared. It's as if he went into the chem lab, saw 9 students holding beakers with different liquids and decided to start mixing them together without knowing what was inside them. It's an admittedly odd comparison; but, think of each child as a beaker with chemicals inside them. If you substitute 'past history and circumstances' for chemicals it should become clearer.

According to further digging on the matter, Brown has indicated that the lyrics were apparently about a student in the classroom. http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc-tv/46468198/#46468198
(also includes text of the interview, below the video box)

Quote:
"there was a note being passed around causing a disturbance among the kids. i could see they were getting riled u. i found it was a written rap song that was written by one of the students. i read it and realized quickly it was about a student in the classroom and i stopped. we started to have a discussion about many things about rap in my own personal experience are very negative and we were talking about the discussion of the fact that, you know, it's used -- that word is used continuously in many different venues, whether it be public, and i was trying to teach them that, you know, it really hurts if they don't understand the historical context of what they're saying.

In the end, the suspension seems excessive. Mr.Brown's law suit, may prove to be a catalyst for change. Brown himself has indicated he'd had no previous intention of discussing this topic during the school year, if it hasn't been a part of the curriculum, maybe it's time to add it in.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Feb, 2012 10:27 am
@Sturgis,
I think the fact that the lesson came up organically out of something that the kids did/said makes it more effective.

Being called in to an assembly on diversity, where the topic would most likely be danced around would probably just induce eye rolls from 6th graders (and most adults).

In my experience those "today we're going to talk about something you most likely haven't even been thinking about" lectures are pretty ineffective.

Sturgis
 
  4  
Reply Thu 23 Feb, 2012 11:24 am
@boomerang,
I fully understand the desire to approach the topic at that moment, but, Mr.Brown himself has indicated he was not prepared. He additionally stated, he'd had no previous intent of even addressing this subject this year, with these students. It made for an unfortunately chaotic ending.

In these matters there's never a perfect way to approach. As I said earlier, I felt he began the conversation properly. At the very least, he should have then tabled it until he could put together some sort of lesson plan. Teaching on the fly leads to flubs. He could have put down some groundwork...perhaps even giving an assignment to write 1 or 2 pages on what all of this (the words) means to the students.

As to assembly herding, I'm aware that is not necessarily a great approach. Again, is anything? Part of what I am suggesting is to at least offer an opportunity to get more people involved. Additionally, it wasn't just an assembly. Part of the deal is afterwards the class discusses it as a unit and then writes an essay on the subject, detailing what they thought before all of this, what they feel now. Even go as far as having the teacher tell them, if they feel they have learned nothing, then say as much. And indicate why.


boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Feb, 2012 11:48 am
@Sturgis,
I agree that there was probably a better way to handle it and your suggestion sounds like a good one.

I was just now reading about a new documentary called "Bully". The film maker made it with the intention that it would be seen by kids. The MPAA gave it an R rating though. The reason? Language.

We dance around important topics so carefully and censure those willing to talk about it. That can't be good.

Here's the trailer for "Bully"

0 Replies
 
 

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