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GW Bush- AWOL-Absent Without Leave

 
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 04:40 am
Commander In Chief
Dubya is a disgrace to the USA and the Military that he supposed to command. That's what this has to do with him being a deserter and a person tht admited that he joined to Gaurd to avoid active Military Service. He is a coward. He should be made to patrol a street or two in Baghdad or his next photo op.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 11:06 am
Damn lies.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 11:26 am
McGentrix
Yup, that Bush is always telling those damn lies. Nice to see you coming around ;-)
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 11:51 am
Because Bush is the ONLY person to avoid going to Vietnam? Remind me again where Clinton was during the Viet Nam war? Did you have the same concerns with him being the C-I-C?

Maybe you hold your opinions on Bush to a much higher standard than you did Clinton. I guess that would be reasonable, after all, he is a better person and should be held to a higher standard.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 11:58 am
Could someone help me please. I'm choking!!!!
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 12:36 pm
I would, Montana, but I'm still having trouble swallowing it myself!!!
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 02:11 pm
How to spot a liar
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 02:26 pm
That was good, PD. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
unknown man
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 02:50 pm
Montana wrote:
Could someone help me please. I'm choking!!!!


Hold on, let me go get my boots, I'm going to need them.
0 Replies
 
Heywood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 03:12 pm
Nice one, McG... usually its hard for conservatives to go very long before mentioning the dreaded "C" word whenever anyone criticizes the president.

Clinton is a "bad man". You happy? Did that sooth the beast for a while?

Now back to the main point:
Bush used his family connections to avoid service in Vietnam, yet he jumps at the chance to send others to their deaths in Iraq under (at best) shaky evidence.

Hold on, lemme give you another one..."Clinton was able to avoid service in Vietnam". Ok? Better now? Doesn't change anything about Bush, unfortunately. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 03:23 pm
Eva wrote:
I would, Montana, but I'm still having trouble swallowing it myself!!!


Yeah, I know what you mean ;-)
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 03:26 pm
unknown_man wrote:
Montana wrote:
Could someone help me please. I'm choking!!!!


Hold on, let me go get my boots, I'm going to need them.


Better make sure them boots ride high because it's getting really deep. Might as well bring some nose plugs too ;-)
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 03:37 pm
This was all hashed and rehashed during the 2000 election and it didn't mean squat then or now seems to me.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 03:47 pm
Quote:
"The importance of showing up and doing the job."

George W. Bush, when asked what he learned during his time in the Texas Air National Guard

There's a large controversy over George Bush's last two years of service, and the Bush campaign offered a lot of explaining and one piece of paper to account for the most egregious lapse of service records: his 1972-73 year. But while the 1972-73 and 73-74 Statements for Points Earned do show that Bush racked up the points necessary for his honorable discharge, they also expose the haphazard way that Bush did so. In fact, they reveal the exact blunt truth of how Bush described his chief lesson from the TANG.

There are two copies of 1st Lt. George Bush's SPE for the years 1972-73, the main year in question concerning Bush's military service. Both copies exhibit the same damage, but the one used by George Magazine in their exoneration of Bush's record has some handwriting explaining the page that doesn't appear on the one found at AWOLBush.com. Here's links to both:

The unaltered SPE

George Magazine's altered but more legible SPE


More here.

Conclusion?

Quote:
Just as the George Magazine article states, Bush had enough retirement points to maintain his Guardsman status honorably, just like he accumulated enough electoral votes to become President.

But from 26 May 72 until 28 Nov 72, Bush blew off his Guard duty to work in Winston Blount's failed Senatorial campaign. He applied for one transfer to an Kansas unit and moved before the transfer was approved (it wasn't). In September, Bush applied again for an Alabama unit and was ordered to report for duty in October. He didn't.

He also blew off his piloting license. He missed his physical, because of his own admission that he no longer "intended" to fly, this despite the years of training at government expense. Do Guardsmen get to decide unilaterally what they will and will not do in the Guard? Bush was allowed this sovereignty.

But not forever. By my reading of his record, Bush got some form of talking-to in November. He showed up for some makeup days somewhere. But all was not well in Lt. Bush's life. That Christmas, he took an underage Marvin out drinking and challenged his dad to settle their differences "mano a mano." When he sobered up from that one, he got back into a routine of attendance, getting the points he needed for the quarter.

But when Bush wandered away from regular attendance again, somebody lit a fire under his posterior. On 73 April 23, Bush was ordered to attend ACDUTRA beginning 73 May 22. He also crunched six more days of active duty into the month of 73 May, with four more inactive duty points for good measure. Further, from his 73-74 SPE, you can see George putting PAID to his Guard service. Late May, June and July are a flurry of active duty points. Finally, the last point was on record, and the last hour was served. Bush had in two months accumulated enough points to apply for an early release to attend Harvard Business School. He got it.

But he didn't even come back to sign the paper for his transfer to a non-attendance-required Denver Guard unit. The Guard tacked on an extra six months as a final door prize for Bush. But it was probably unnoticed. By that time, Lt. Bush was at Harvard, applying the lesson he'd learned at the Texas Air National Guard.

http://boloboffin.blogspot.com/bushharvard.jpg

Showing up and doing the job.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 07:23 pm
Still relevant
Posted by trof on Wed Feb-04-04 12:27 AM

I send this out every time it comes up on the web. Maybe somewhere it will get some traction. Feel free to use any or all of this, with or without attribution.

At the time I joined the guard (1963), my unit was in dire need of pilots.

The 117th Tactical Recon Wing and the 106th Tac Recon Squadron were recalled to active duty in October 1961 during the Berlin Crisis.
The units were relieved from active duty in August 1962.
Many of the pilots elected to remain on active duty and make a career of the Air Force.

I heard about their pilot training program and just walked in off the street. I took a 4 hour Air Force Officer Qualification Test (AFOQT,
basically the old Stanine general intelligence test) and another four hour Flight Aptitude test. I passed both, although I don't remember what a passing grade was. I do remember that 8 or 10 of us were taking the tests
and only 2 of us passed. I also took and passed a flight physical with the base flight surgeon. You DO NOT take a flight physical with your "personal" physician.

While my test papers and applications were
forwarded to National Guard Bureau in Washington for processing and approval, the FBI ran a security check on me. A few weeks later I was notified that all preparations were complete and that I could present myself
at the monthly drill week-end for swearing in with a temporary commission as a 2nd Lt. No boot camp, no nuthin'. The temporary commission was to become
permanent upon my successful completion of pilot training.

A few months later, my unit secured a slot for me in a USAF pilot training class. It was a 55 week program. When I was awarded my wings, I returned to Birmingham, AL (106th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, 117th Wing,
Alabama Air National Guard) and 90 days of active-duty-for-training to check out in our unit's aircraft, the RF-84/F. I then completed my 6 year obligation and was honorably discharged with the rank of Captain.
Massey Lambard
Foley, AL

AWOL? Deserter? Here are the FACTS.

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm#802.%20ART.%202.%20PERSON...

802. ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER
(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the
Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal Service.

Bush was not in Federal Service, thus not subject to UCMJ, and therefore not AWOL or a deserter under UCMJ.

However, from the Texas Code of Military Justice, which Bush "may have been" (see below) subject to says:
Acts 1987, 70th Leg., ch. 147, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1987. § 432.130. Desertion
(a) A member of the state military forces is guilty of desertion if the member:
(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or
place of duty with intent to remain away permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid
hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the state military forces, enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another of the state military forces, or in one of the armed forces of the United States, without
fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated.
(b) A commissioned officer of the state military forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or
proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away permanently is guilty of desertion.
(c) A person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished as a court-martial directs.

Bush was certainly in violation of one or more of these sections, but notice the law was passed in 1987, well after he was out of the guard. So far, I
can find no information as to what the law was when Bush was in the TANG.


I was a pilot in the ALAANG 1963-1972. I can find no documentation of Alaba
ma military regulations on the web, but here's what I know to be true from personal experience:

When I joined the guard to be trained as a pilot I signed an agreement, a "contract" if you will. Upon successful completion of USAF pilot training,
I was committed for six years of service in the Alabama Air National Guard (ALAANG). Pilot training lasted a little over a year, so my basic obligation was for seven years.

If I had done exactly the same thing Bush did, skipped out and not shown up for required drills and Flight Training Periods (FTPs)
1. I would have been located/contacted (if possible) by a superior officer on an "unofficial" level and asked about my absence. In reality, it would have been unthinkable for me or any of my squadron-mates to just drop out of
sight without any prior communication with my squadron or wing as to a reason for this.
2. If I had no satisfactory "unofficial" explanation I would be required to meet with an evaluation board of senior officers to explain my actions. If
necessary, I would have been taken into custody by military police.
3. Now it gets "official" If the board found I had no acceptable excuse, they could offer three options.
a. I could make up the missed periods, possibly by extending my
obligation.
b. If I was unwilling to do this, I could have been assigned to
"involuntary active duty" (essentially "drafted"), probably into the Army, as a private, for a period not to exceed the balance of my obligation. At the time, that was a ticket straight to Viet Nam.
c. If I refused, I could be sent to jail for the balance of my obligation, probably to Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary.

You can see why it was in my best interest to show up each and every time with a shine on my shoes and a smile on my face. That Bush was able to shirk his obligation with absolutely no penalty angers me. It was wrong,
and he should have paid. But he didn't. He had the right connections and he got off scot free. Another reason this was "papered over" is that, had it been publicized, his commanding officers would have been seen as guilty
of dereliction of duty in not dealing with the situation according to established military regulations.

Two more points:
1. Bush was mustered out as a 1st Lt. As a normal matter of course, just serving the necessary time-in-grade and having no major black marks in their records, all National Guard pilots were awarded the rank of Captain a year
prior to completing their 6 year obligation. That Bush did not speaks volumes and should have been a "red flag".
2. In spite of Bush's flagrant disregard/violation of military regulations, he received an Honorable Discharge (which cheapens mine and the accomplishments of all who have received one). This is one of the strongest
"talking points" used by his supporters.

We can bemoan the fact, and wail and gnash our teeth, but there's no way (that I know of) that this wrong can be righted. I won't "get over it", but I can move on. We can publicize this as much as possible, but he will never
be brought up on criminal charges over it.

Periodically someone discovers
http://www.awolbush.com for the first time and thinks "Aha!". Well, I'm glad you learned about it. Go tell others, for whatever that's worth. But don't think you will ever see Bush in a court of law, military or civilian,
because of this. The only small, faint hope we have is the court of public opinion.
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 07:55 pm
All politicians are cowards. Gore, CLinton, and Bush all avoided going to Vietnam.

We should only worry about politicians on their policies not their lives. Bush took drugs?!?! To quote a friend "I challenge you to find many people of the sixties who DIDNT take drugs." Drugs deosnt make you a bad person or an evil guy. It means you made a bad decision.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 08:02 pm
Gore was in Vietnam. He did not see combat, however. Clinton spoke out against the folly of the war and declared he would not fight in such a conflict. Bush backed the war, but got into a unit of National Guard that never was in danger of being sent over there.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 08:07 pm
The Commander In Chief is a Disgrace to the Military
The "champagne unit," Sidney Adger, and more


http://quest.cjonline.com/stories/070300/gen_0703004428.shtml

"Bush was not the only son of the rich and powerful of both parties to get a spot in the Texas Guard. His unit near Houston was sometimes called the Champagne Unit because of its famous names.

"Lloyd Bentsen III, a first lieutenant and son of the future senator and Cabinet secretary, was there. So was Capt. John Connally III, son of the former governor and Cabinet secretary. "


http://www.christopherlydon.org/viewtopic.php?topic=1172&forum=4

Because an assignment to the Texas Air National Guard guaranteed never having to go to Viet Nam, or for that manner anywhere near combat, It was considered a "champagne" unit that was refuge for the area sons of privilege. Its ranks included John Conally's son, Lloyd Benston's son, John Tower's son, SEVEN Dallas Cowboys and two sons of the businessman, Sid Adger, who got George 'Dubya' Bush into the Guard ahead of hundreds of others on a waiting list."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories...

"The speaker of the Texas Legislature personally asked the top official of the Texas Air National Guard to help George W. Bush obtain a pilot's slot in a Guard fighter squadron during the war in Vietnam, according to informed sources.

"The speaker, Ben Barnes, intervened on Bush's behalf sometime in late 1967 or early 1968 at the request of a good friend of Bush's father, then a Republican congressman from Houston, the sources said. The friend, Sidney A. Adger, was a prominent Houston business executive who died in 1996."


Sidney A. Adger is a fairly interesting figure. For example, his name appears as a reference on a resume of James Bath, the friend of Bush Jr. with whom Bush ducked out on the flight physical. Bath himself eventually became the US representative of the business interests of Salem bin Laden and then of Saudi banker and BCCI-figure Khaled bin Mahfouz. He may also have served as a CIA liaison to Saudi Arabia, starting in 1976, when Bush Sr., became head of the CIA.

Adger's son, John Adger, was a partner of a man named Robert Corson, a Houston developer said to have been involved in money-laundering for the CIA. Corson got in trouble for savings-and-loan fraud and was found dead of an apparent drug overdose in 1992 -- although the circumstances were considered suspicious by some.

Adger's other son, Stephen Adger, was a fraternity brother of Houston real estate developed Walt Mischer, Jr. Mischer has admitted he knows Bath, but only "just to shake hands with him." However, a business partner of Mischer's, Jack Trotter, was also listed as a reference on that Bath resume, and supposedly was responsible for introducing Bath into leading Houston business circles.

In addition, Bath and Lan Bentsen were involved together in business dealings with Trotter. Lan Bentsen, the son of Lloyd Bentsen, is yet another real estate investor who was involved in the savings and loan scandal of the 1980's.

There is a book by Pete Brewton called "The Mafia, CIA, and George Bush," which I haven't read but which apparently makes the connections among many of these figures.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 08:29 pm
I know a few people from the sixties that didn't try anything but the rare marguerita but I don't admire them more than anybody else.

On getting out of going to Vietnam, I guess I am glad I am a woman and didn't have to decide for myself. My dad was at the end of wwii a full colonel, very patriotic, and also tended to be against a lot of what we were getting into in se asia and various other places. I know I would have been wildly torn. In '67 I would have been 25 and would have had to choose. What I might have chosen might have changed over the years, as I understood more. I don't knock anyone for choosing not to go for war questioning reasons, or even lack of gungho-ness if one had an out, I understand that, at the same time I admire those who did go amid personal qualms of all sorts, very much. And admire those who lost control, lost their sense of self, came back wounded in many ways and still deal with it.

I have a problem re being awol from not going...

but that isn't the heart of my difficulty with our president, for me it is a tangent.

I have a greater problem with what I think of as - under this president - the general dismantling of our government as we have known it at the same time we become extraordinarily aggressive, the extraordinary part in the pre-emptive sense.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2004 05:31 pm
Obvious
Military Service Becomes a Weapon

By ELISABETH BUMILLER and DAVID M. HALBFINGER

WASHINGTON (Feb. 3) -- The contrast could not be more striking.
Quote:


"one that he might not have"

It's real obvious if one does the research that the words should have "would not have".

More suckup from the Media.
0 Replies
 
 

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