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Period,Semicolon,Dash Comma or Not.

 
 
Raelynn
 
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2004 12:24 pm
Hi let me know if I am right or not.

1. The city (,) that is largest in the world (,) is Tokyo.

Should I use the semicolon, nothing or what mark?
================================
2. As long as there are so many people working (,) retail sales in all stores should increase.

Should a comma be placed between the parentheses?
=============================

3. He wanted to buy a number of items, such as (Smile clothes,shoes,and lugguage.
Should I use the semicolon, nothing or what mark?
=============================
4. I went to the market, bought some fresh vegetables (,) and then returned home.
Should I use the semicolon, comma, nothing or what mark?
=================
5. A small (,) red car was parked in front of my house.
I believe nothing should be used in this sentence.
==================
6.I don't want to go (,) neverthless, I must do my duty.
Should I use the semicolon, comma, nothing or what mark?
==========================
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,559 • Replies: 17
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Wy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2004 02:06 pm
1. nothing. This phrase is integral to the meaning of the sentence, and should not be set off by commas.
2. yes, that's the right place for a comma
3. nothing. Leave out the "such as" and you need a colon (...a number of items: clothes, etc.)
4. yes, a comma on both sides of a parenthetical phrase (opposite of 1. -- you could remove this phrase and still have a sentence that makes sense.)
5. I think you're right. One more adjective (a small, shiny, red car) and you'd need commas, though.
6. comma here -- around words like nevertheless, however

A word of warning -- I'm not a trained grammarian. You might get quibbles from some others around here, and I'm sure there are more technical explanations. But I'll stand by what I say here...
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2004 03:03 pm
I agree with everything Wy wrote with one small exception:

A semicolon is fine replacing the first comma in #6.
0 Replies
 
Laptoploon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2004 04:55 pm
I'd have written...(if I believed it)

The largest city in the world is Tokyo.

Laptop - researching brevity
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2004 08:35 am
Re: Period,Semicolon,Dash Comma or Not.
1. The city (,) that is largest in the world (,) is Tokyo.

Should I use the semicolon, nothing or what mark?
I agree with Wy. No punctuation is necessary here.
================================
2. As long as there are so many people working (,) retail sales in all stores should increase.
Should a comma be placed between the parentheses?
Yes, use the comma.
=============================

3. He wanted to buy a number of items, such as (Smile clothes,shoes,and lugguage.
Should I use the semicolon, nothing or what mark?
The comma is fine before the "such as." It's also okay not to use a comma there. Don't use a colon after "as." The only time you would use a colon with this wording would be if the list were set off.

He wanted to buy a number of items, such as:
clothes
shoes
lugguage

=============================
4. I went to the market, bought some fresh vegetables (,) and then returned home.
Should I use the semicolon, comma, nothing or what mark?
The comma after "vegetables" is called a serial comma, and it's optional. Since you've used the serial comma in the other sentences, you should use it here to be consistent.
=================
5. A small (,) red car was parked in front of my house.
I believe nothing should be used in this sentence.
You're right.
==================
6.I don't want to go (,) neverthless, I must do my duty.
Should I use the semicolon, comma, nothing or what mark?
A semicolon is the punctuation to use after "go."

Sorry if I've repeated some answers. The problem with not using the quick response box is that you can't see what other people said.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 12:44 am
You should never put a comma before the word AND. This is a common grammatical error.
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 04:51 am
Ceili, Sorry to disagree with you. Blue, black, and yellow. The second comma is NOT a grammatical error. It's an optional approach to presenting items in a list. As I mention above, it's referred to as the series comma. There are other instances in which a comma preceding the word "and" is correct. But I assume that this is the one you're referring to.
0 Replies
 
Wy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 01:26 pm
Roberta, I was taught that a parenthetical phrase takes a comma on each side, and that the way to tell a p. phrase was to remove it (temporarily). If what you have left is a sentence, then you have a p. phrase and you need both commas...

I went to the market and then returned home.

I went to the market, bought some fresh vegetables, and then returned home.

To me, if you leave out the second comma, it's confusing. This sentence is short enough that it's not a problem, but sometimes I have to go back to the beginning of the sentence and sort things out; a comma would have clarified things for me.

I've noticed that second comma disappearing more and more.
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 06:56 pm
Wy, You're right about parenthetical phrases. The thing is that the sentence in question doesn't contain a parenthetical phrase. It contains a list:

4. I went to the market, bought some fresh vegetables (,) and then returned home.

"Bought some fresh vegetables" isn't a parenthetical phrase. It's part of a list of three things that "I" did. I did this, this, and that. :-)
0 Replies
 
Wy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 07:16 pm
What is a parenthetical phrase, other than a phrase which can be removed from the sentence?
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 06:08 am
Wy, That's exactly what a parenthetical phrase is. All I'm saying is that the sentence in question doesn't contain a parenthetical phrase. Each of the three elements has equal weight.

I went to the market, bought some fresh vegetables (,) and then returned home.

As in, What did you do today? Three things. I went to the market. I bought some fresh vegetables. And then I returned home. I don't see the veggie section as parenthetical. I see it as part of the description of the action. I came. I saw. I conquered. I came, I saw, and then I conquered. What did I do today? I worked, I watched some tv, and then I went online.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 12:00 pm
I can see it as being parenthetical, or explanatory, if that was all you did at the market. If I meant it that way I'd use parentheses.

I went to the market (bought some vegetables) and then returned home.
0 Replies
 
Wy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 02:27 pm
I'm with osso on this one.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 03:15 pm
If I meant it as a parenthesis situation, as above, I wouldn't use two commas, which we do use with a "parenthetical phrase"..

I'm saying that suddenly I see two meanings of parenthetical, one calling for actual parentheses, and one calling for commas on each end.


Let's see if I can figure out how to explain what I am getting at. In the version where I actually use parenthesis, I do see the list from the store as a side remark, almost a complete tangent. When parenthetical two commas are used in a sentence, I see the phrase between the commas as, ah... um, ah, um, more immediately descriptive than a full aside. Okay, I'm sure that is as clear as mud...

I agree with Roberta that her way of seeing the sentence as a list of things done is correct. I think you can do it either way, but that if you do it with the two commas it isn't parenthetical in this case.

And to confuse things further, if I was going to think of the 'bought fresh vegetables' as parenthetical, sloppy writer that I am, I might also use two dashes for the aside (side remark).

Ok, Robbie, straighten me out...
0 Replies
 
Wy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 04:45 pm
I went to the store bought some fresh vegetables and returned home.
Okay. I see what Roberta's saying. Perhaps this is not the best example of what I'm trying to get across...
Let me just ask this: Is it wrong to put both commas in this sentence?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 04:54 pm
This sentence?
I went to the store, bought some fresh vegetables, and returned home.
It's not wrong to use the two commas, but they are used because it is a list of things done, not because the phrase is parenthetical (here, it isn't).
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 07:02 pm
The two commas are right regardless of why they're used. They're right if the second comma is a serial comma, and they're right if the second comma is used to "close" a parenthetical phrase.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 11:22 pm
well, yep.
0 Replies
 
 

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