16
   

What is free will?

 
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2013 05:53 pm
@Olivier5,
There is thinking, ergo there is thought or there are thoughts. And as far as I'm concerned thoughts require brains as well. But a subject or egoself? (an "I" who does the thinking?) That's an unnecessary assumption necessitated only by the grammar of some languages..
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2013 06:44 pm
@JLNobody,
So i'm talking to a disparate mass of thoughts generated by a brain, without any consistency? Odd when you think of how that incoherent brain keeps saying the same thing over and over again.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2013 07:08 pm
@Olivier5,
So you think that the disparate thoughts of an incoherent brain would be effectively integrated by no more than an ego? Rolling Eyes
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2013 08:55 pm
@JLNobody,
I don't understand much of what you guys are talking about, but keep it up! It's interesting in a "philosophical" way. Mr. Green Shocked Embarrassed Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2013 11:11 pm
@JLNobody,
I don't like the term 'ego', it reeks of egotism and egoism. But if 'your' thoughts are coherent, then it begs the question: why? What makes them coherent and enduring over time?

By the way, I know of no human language that does not have personal pronouns.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jul, 2013 11:51 pm
@Olivier5,
But isn't ego and id all part of philosophy-speak?
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2013 12:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
No. That's Freudean psychology you're thinking of. But the word 'ego' (Latin for 'self' or 'I') is used in all disciplines to simply refer to the self as a separate entity.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2013 12:24 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Haven't heard those words since college. Yea, Freudean.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2013 02:21 am
@Olivier5,
...it is quite entertaining to see people really believing that had we grammatically dropped the use of the "I" in favour of the usage of a "we" anything would fundamentally change, naive is the most polite way to put it...

..."we" is and works as much as an "I" in terms of unitary place holder to which functions are related in inputs outputs as the "I" can be...they consistently and completely keep missing the abstraction in the problem of Unity...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2013 09:21 am
@cicerone imposter,
In the Freudian model, the ego is one of three parts of the mind, with the other parts being the id and super-ego, both largely inconscious. Other structures have been proposed for the mind, like the child / adult / parent of transactional analysis, or the 'committee model' where varied thought centers share the same 'mental board room' where they debate. These models have all a piece of the truth IMO.

To me, the important aspect of how our mind functions is its reflexivity: like a mirror of ourselves, we reflect our own thoughts (hence the two meanings of the word 'reflection': optical and mental). We can hear ourself thinking, visualize stuff that we imagine. This happens within some 'space' usually called 'conscience'. That's why I like the term 'self': it conveys that reflexivity. But the term is also weak if one agrees with Freud, as I do, that there are inconscient thoughts. So maybe the terms 'person' or 'mind' are better, more general...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2013 09:58 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I exist within the context of the we. Genes, culture, language, environment all affects our thinking, motivations, actions, and what we call "personality."

In these respects, I agree with Olivier about the self.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2013 06:30 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
We are not amused.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2013 07:46 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
To me, the important aspect of how our mind functions is its reflexivity: like a mirror of ourselves, we reflect our own thoughts (hence the two meanings of the word 'reflection': optical and mental). We can hear ourself thinking, visualize stuff that we imagine. This happens within some 'space' usually called 'conscience'. That's why I like the term 'self': it conveys that reflexivity. But the term is also weak if one agrees with Freud, as I do, that there are inconscient thoughts. So maybe the terms 'person' or 'mind' are better, more general...


Our minds "brains" do seem to be very complex to the point that we are in the infancy of understanding it. I found it interesting that just thinking about exercise we are able to see results in strength.


JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jul, 2013 11:49 pm
@reasoning logic,
What is separate from the 'mind' which could understand? This alone should be enough for you to realize the idiocy you've initiated.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jul, 2013 04:56 am
@reasoning logic,
The Buddhism I practise uses visualization... your video explains (to some extent ) a reason why it is beneficial... thanks for posting the video.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jul, 2013 05:33 am
@JPLosman0711,
Quote:
What is separate from the 'mind' which could understand? This alone should be enough for you to realize the idiocy you've initiated.



Why didn't you take more time to elaborate on your answer, instead of that babble?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jul, 2013 08:22 am
@reasoning logic,
Yes, thoughts get written down on the brain. And the brain has a remarkable plasticity as to what it records where, as shown by people who lost a piece of it (as a result of a car accident for instance) and who can re-learn to do stuff by allocating new areas or networks of their brain to the task, thus replacing the lost capacity.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jul, 2013 09:11 pm
@Olivier5,
Bump.
0 Replies
 
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 04:56 pm
@reasoning logic,
Thank you for reminding me why I only come to this website while I am moderately intoxicated.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 09:10 pm
@JPLosman0711,
...sounds like a fetiche to me... Laughing
 

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