What is free will?

@Logicus,

I made a Wiki entry also but well before that I have dozens of pages of my personnel understanding on the matter... I justify the reasons why I believe what I believe out of my own reasoning not authority...I wish others when confronted with the important questions rather opt to address then passing by each other...the problem in the way of good philosophy is self and ego in front and on top of love of knowledge...people rather cheat a thousand times then lose a debate...its really really sad and a bad symptom to where the species is going (extinction) at light speed...

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@Logicus,

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But we are not apes. We are an evolved species of them. We are capable of concealing and suppressing our emotions. Some of us don't even have them.

Really?

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Some of us don't even have them.

This may be true but is it a good thing?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

You know what? You're a bit thick but I'll give you one more chance.

In an indeterminist world, there are laws too. Just not everything is 'lawful', some are 'lawless'. The possibility of such a mix of 'music' (laws or regularities) and 'noise' (random events), is to me such an evidence that I don't know how to explain it any differently to you than I have done many times now.

Why does it has to be pure noise or pure music? Why the excluded middle? What does the universe care about your aesthetical or metaphysical concerns about freaking unity? Why can't the universe be allowed to be DIVERSE?

By the way, noise exists everywhere. You don't need to go very deep in a cyclotron to find random events. The behaviour of a gas in any closed space is best described as random. You must know about Brownian motion.

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just so happens the vast majority of scientists and experts embrace the idea mind resides in the brain and thus that the brain being a physical object is subject to the exact same rules either of determinacy or indeterminacy other objects are

The brain is a physical and biological object, hence subject to the exact same rules of determinacy AND indeterminacy other objects are

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@Olivier5,

You know what KIDDO RANDOM means **** ...random means in good old plain English we don't know what the f*** is happening here..."noise" is lack of knowledge, mental confusion, lack of computing ability when submersed in an almost infinite sea of data !!! People who do believe the Universe is fundamentally random DON'T GRASP philosophically what random means and worst, people who do think random and not random can coexist don't even get to grasp basic logic ! Perhaps you both exist and not exist at the same time, that's is what taking the excluded middle gets at...you are a mystifier and you are scary apawling ! Get the f*** out of my face, grow 20 more IQ points and then come back Frenchie !

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@Logicus,

You are welcome to post whatever, logicus. I find my answer on wiki and elsewhere, don't you worry.

Other post youtube, links. I could have put just the link, but the entry was so similar to something I proposed here sometime ago that I thought to post bits, for good emphasis... You see, I stand accused of never quoting 'big youtube thinkers', or of inventing all this, of being stubborn and the odd one out here.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

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You know what KIDDO RANDOM means **** ...random means in good old plain English we don't know what the f*** is happening here..."noise" is lack of knowledge, mental confusion, lack of computing ability when submersed in an almost infinite see of data !!!

You can prove that, or it's an aesthetical preference?

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@cicerone imposter,

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Please cut and paste from any of my posts that is an ad hominem?

Let me guess, You think that you are not an insulting person right?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

If the species is headed towards extinction, then I'd say you're right about predetermined. The only problem about that conclusion is who on earth can confirm it?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

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Get the f*** out of my face, grow 20 more IQ points and then come back Frenchie

Quite the tantrum you threw in there...

We were just talking about philosophy-induced-anger... You want to join the group and talk about your experience?...

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@reasoning logic,

I raise your monkey video with this one...

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@Olivier5,

I meant no disrespect, sir. I only tried to prove a point. Apologies.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

You're right. Maybe Wikipedia entries aren't that unreliable. I only think that way, because many people have access to alter it. I have had friends who made accounts on there just to mess it up.

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@tomr,

It seamed like he knew he was the omega of the team his facial expression seamed a little bit sad...I was happy he finally got to strike the damned ball n got a big hug ! Very Happy

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@Fil Albuquerque,

I love those Pankun and James videos. If you liked that there are a lot more. He does a bunch of crazy stuff. There's one video were he is a rice farmer and he carries these big shears around and you can tell the farmers look concerned. But he does plant a little field of rice. In other videos he cooks some noodles and rides a Segway. Its very entertaining.

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@tomr,

Bring in the monkey show, I love monkey sees monkey do...we got plenty of monkey around but we can always get some more... Wink

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So just to make a head count, who believes/knows in free will and who does not?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Here's a good one. I wish the video was better quality.

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I should have just posted this one. It is better quality of Pankun cooking. It is funny too.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil,
If you insist on the naive realist position that "events happen independent of observers" and I completely reject that, communication ceases.

Just to underscore my point...I am currently sitting in a room with potentially billions of "focal objects" my selection of any one of which could be " a reportable event". Do I report for example that "it is the case that there is a dead fly on the window sill" ? That "observation event" might be meaningful in one sense to you, in another to a cleaner, irrelevant to a third party, and a meaningless "stae of affairs" to an apocryphal frog which cannot detect "dead flies".

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@Logicus,

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To counter that example of the triangle you put up, 180*, shapes, numbers, all of the things you see in Mathematics, they are all symbols to something that exists in Nature. Sure, in Chinese one is a different symbol than the English way of writing 1, but they all represent the same thing, the idea of a singular entity.

So you think "planar surfaces" and "planar triangles" exist "in nature". ?
Plato might have bought that one, but not Einstein !

And counting one is indeed common to (verbal) human beings who have systems of measurement successively involving nominal, ordinal, interval and ratio levels. Note however that the first (axiomatic) level ...nominal...means "naming" i.e. assigning to an identity set. The question "one what ?" begs the question of observer states.

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What is free will?

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