27
   

the "dear leader" is gone: North Korean leader Kim Jong-il dead

 
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 06:58 am
@msolga,
This might be the only time I've seen one of these obituary headlines and thought "oh, awesome."

That's just the initial reaction though, of course the replacement matters, a lot. And this replacement doesn't look that encouraging.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 07:04 am
@sozobe,
I've no doubt you weren't the only one who felt that way, sozobe.


Live updates, text, interviews & video reports from the BBC:

LIVE: Kim Jong-il dies:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16241185
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 07:10 am
*whew*
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 08:05 am
@sozobe,
Quote:
This might be the only time I've seen one of these obituary headlines and thought "oh, awesome."

That's just the initial reaction though, of course the replacement matters, a lot. And this replacement doesn't look that encouraging.

Except for the use of the horrible word awesome, which I replaced with 'wonderful news!', these were my thoughts. I immediately began wondering what and who is next. Will it be better, more of the same or will it be worse? So far it isn't looking too good; there are often surprises though. Maybe the replacement has been playing along with his father all this time as a way to secure the top spot and bring forth forward a positive change.
hamburgboy
 
  3  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 08:10 am
@Sturgis,
a/t CNN , japan has already sent condolences on the death of " the dear leader " .
no doubt other countries will do the same .
it'll be interesting to see which countries will NOT sent condolences .
hamburgboy
 
  3  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 08:14 am
@hamburgboy,
from Japan News -
http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/japan-calls-emergency-security-meeting-after-kims-death

Quote:
Japan calls emergency security meeting after Kim's death


Politics Dec. 19, 2011 - 07:30PM JST ( 30 )




TOKYO —

Japan gathered senior ministers Monday to discuss security concerns following North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il’s death as the government offered rare “condolences” on the passing of a much-reviled man.

Minutes after the noon broadcast by Pyongyang’s official media, Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda cancelled a speech and rushed back to his office where he chaired an emergency security meeting.

Noda said he had ordered officials to beef up intelligence-gathering on North Korea, to work closely with the United States, China and South Korea, and to prepare for further unexpected developments.

“We will gather information to assess how this incident will affect the situation,” he later told reporters.

“I have instructed (agencies) to prepare even for the unexpected to ensure this will not adversely influence peace and stability on the Korean peninsula.”

Defense Minister Yasuo Ichikawa said no unusual military moves by the unpredictable regime had been detected.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 08:56 am
Kind of hard to want to go on sending food to those people when food we send them gets sold for money to buy weapons and when government policies are the main cause of hunger there and people on the outs with the government are always first to starve.

Only thing I can figure to do would be to air drop food to the people who really were low on the totem pole in that system if you could figure out who and where they were. Also might make sense to air drop huge numbers of cheap radios and have some sort of massive radio-free Korea program in place, but I can't picture our state dept or anybody doing anything like that any time soon.
shewolfnm
 
  3  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:17 am
@gungasnake,
well..that is already done.

But here is the hard part... even in those secluded hard to reach parts of the country where starvation is a common thing, there are officials that are in arms reach to gun down even the helicopters. Unfortunately the people suffer no matter what.

there is only so much you can do when it comes to trying to sneak in food when every avenue in either gets the deliverer killed...the food taken.. or the locals killed when the officials find they have some..

Same thing in many parts of africa.
Soldiers die very day delivering FOOD and being shot down by the 'officials' there..

its horrible
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:19 am
@gungasnake,
and what these people do not realize.... is that when the army ( or who ever is delivering ) is thwarted ENOUGH times by the officials in one particular area... they move on to try to find another place to feed people. These officials ( so called) are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. They are losing what little supplies they are able to STEAL because they are killing the deliverers. Dumbasses.
Pretty soon the project will have to be abandoned because there will BE NO safe spot to drop.. then what ! they dont think about things like that
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:14 am
Quote:
According to the memoir of a man who says he spent 11 years as the family's sushi chef, Jong Un is tough and ambitious like his father.
The chef, who goes by the pen name Kenji Fujimoto, described Jong Un as a competitive, even ruthless, child.
Dressed in a military outfit, the young Jong Un "glared at me with a menacing look when we shook hands" the first time they met, Fujimoto wrote in "Kim Jong Il's Chef." ''I can never forget the look in his eyes which seemed to be saying, 'This one is a despicable Japanese.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/mystery-surrounds-son-set-succeed-kim-jong-il-141750265.html

We hope not.
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 11:55 am
@hawkeye10,
December 19, 2011
China Moves to Ensure Stability in North Korea
By EDWARD WONG - New York Times

BEIJING — Following the death of Kim Jong-il, the North Korean leader, China is moving quickly to deepen its influence over senior officials in North Korea and particularly with those in the military to try to ensure stability in the isolated nation, according to Chinese and foreign former government officials and analysts.

China is North Korea’s foremost ally, and leaders here had been hoping Mr. Kim would live for at least another two or three years to solidify the succession process that he had begun with his youngest son, Kim Jong-un, the former officials and analysts say. Uncertainty now looms over whether the younger Kim can consolidate his power in the face of competing elite factions and whether he and other leaders will continue initiatives begun by his father, including studying China as a model for possible economic reforms, the observers say. The elder Kim had made four trips to China in the last 18 months to look at a range of economic projects, and Chinese leaders had urged him to experiment with reforms.

The greatest concern for China is whether Mr. Kim’s death will lead to a rise in tensions on the divided Korean peninsula. That could happen if generals in Pyongyang, the capital of North Korea, try to reinforce their hold on power through aggression toward South Korea. Unlike China, where the Communist Party stands as the ultimate authority, the military is the final arbiter in North Korea.

Mr. Kim’s death “means that China will have to assume a heavier responsibility over the relationship in order to maintain peace and stability on the Korean peninsula,” said Xu Wenji, a professor of Northeast Asian studies at Jilin University and a former Chinese envoy to South Korea.

Shi Yinhong, a professor of international relations at Renmin University in Beijing, said, “The death significantly enhances uncertainty on the peninsula.” He added: “In my personal view, the succession is very hastily arranged and Kim Jong-un is very ill prepared to take over.”

“Frankly speaking, there is a substantial chance of political instability in North Korea,” he said. “This is based on the nature of the regime, the inadequate process of succession and economic hardships in the country.”

As anxieties bubbled to the surface in Beijing, so did signs of mourning. People brought bouquets of white flowers to the North Korean Embassy in Beijing and were allowed inside. Police officers surrounding the building kept all others at a distance. Asked about visas, a guard said, “Come back next year.” The flag atop the embassy roof was lowered to half-staff. One resident of Beijing with ties to North Korea said telephone operators in Pyongyang were crying when he got through to a call center there.

Evening newspapers in China ran front-page headlines above photographs of Mr. Kim. Xinhua, the state news agency, cited a Foreign Ministry spokesman, Ma Zhaoxu, giving the official position on Mr. Kim’s death. Mr. Kim was a “great leader,” Mr. Ma said, and “China and North Korea will strive together to continue making positive contributions.”

There were some irreverent takes. Netease, a popular Internet portal, ran a topics page with a headline saying: “Kim Jong-il’s Death Shows the Importance of Losing Weight.” The subtitle was even more subversive: “A government is just like a human body, in that neither can afford to be too fat.” As of Monday evening, the page was still online.

The strong ties between China and the two Kims were on display during a lavish military parade in Pyongyang in October 2010 that was used to signal to the world that the younger Kim would inherit power. There, Zhou Yongkang, a member of the Politburo Standing Committee who oversees the public security apparatus, sat in the front row with the two Kims. Afterward, the elder Kim began gradually introducing his successor to various Chinese officials.

“At this moment, China might provide the best chance of stability,” said Bob Carlin, a former State Department official and a fellow at Stanford University who travels to North Korea.

“They want to be the best informed and have a modicum of influence and have people consulting with them at this moment,” he added. “The rest of us are deaf, dumb, blind and with our arms tied behind our backs.”

John Delury, a scholar of China and the two Koreas at Yonsei University in Seoul, said: “Chinese diplomats are the only ones who can pick up the phone and talk to North Korean counterparts about what is going on, what to expect. This reveals the fatal weakness in Washington and Seoul’s over-reliance on sanctions over the past three years.”

China wants North Korea to stand strong as a buffer state that keeps American troops in South Korea at a distance, but relations between the two Communist countries have had to endure complicated twists in recent years. Chinese officials were upset by North Korea’s sudden shelling of Yeonpyeong Island in South Korea in late 2010, and have lobbied North Korean leaders to refrain from further military actions, analysts say. Earlier in 2010, China was forced into an awkward position when South Korea and the United States accused North Korea of sinking the Cheonan, a South Korean warship, with a torpedo. The United States put pressure on China to agree with its allegation, which China refused to do.

Those events might have increased anxieties in China about North Korea, but they have also made North Korea more dependent on China for economic support. Two scholars of North Korea at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, Stephan Haggard and Marcus Noland, estimated in a paper published this year that China and South Korea alone recently accounted for 55 percent to 80 percent of North Korea’s trade. After the Cheonan sinking, most trade with South Korea stopped, so China became an even bigger partner.

Exact trade figures are difficult to pinpoint. A paper published in December 2010 by the Congressional Research Service estimated that in 2009, exports from North Korea to China increased to $793 million, while Chinese exports to North slowed slightly to $1.9 billion. Chinese trade and investment undercut the economic sanctions that the United States and other nations imposed on North Korea to try to halt its nuclear program.

The trade can take many forms. Susan Shirk, a former State Department official and professor of political science at the University of California at San Diego, said she spoke with a North Korean man in Pyongyang in September who was conducting state-to-state trade with China. She said the North Korean worked for the Ministry of Foreign Trade, and he was selling iron ore to China at the price that China pays to large trade partners like Australia; in return, he was buying corn from China at the price on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange that day.

North Korean leaders are also trying to jump-start the languishing trade zone of Rason on the Chinese border and to get Chinese businesspeople to invest in tourism infrastructure that includes a creaking cruise ship running between Rason and the Mount Kumgang nature park.

After Mr. Kim’s death, the North Koreans “are still going have to rely on China to large degree,” said Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt, an analyst based in Beijing for the International Crisis Group. “China and North Korea are locked in this dance of interdependency. China is going to have to continue to be a big benefactor and bankroll North Korea to a big extent.”






Michael Wines contributed reporting, and Li Bibo and Mia Lia contributed research.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 01:05 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Only thing I can figure to do would be to air drop food to the people who really were low on the totem pole in that system...

Air-dropping anything on a country with lots of ground-to-air missiles, a dozen nukes, and a paranoid commander in chief? Sorry Gunga - I suspect you really work for The Onion, and that you also wrote this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/kim-jongil-interprets-sunrise-as-act-of-war,2077/
Anybody here knows how to read Korean? What do the posters say? I think that's a real picture, but it's hard to tell - do they sell The Onion in Korea?!
http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/2077/Kim-Jong-Il-Jump-R_jpg_600x1000_q85.jpg
Quote:
...According to North Korean military sources, the sunrise, sighted at 6:17 a.m. by patrolling officers, was not fully confirmed until an hour later, at which time Kim assessed the threat himself, and immediately released a harshly worded warning to the U.S. and the United Nations Security Council.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 01:33 pm

Communist slavery does not appear to be much in peril.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  4  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 05:12 pm
I will not speak about the Dear Leader, but about my friend Virulo and his relationship with North Korea.

My friend Virulo is a Cuban humorist-songwriter-performer, famous in his home country and well known is most of Latin America. He's critical of the Communist regime but somehow managed, for many years, to be an "accepted dissenter". He lives in Mexico now. "You are Fidel's Evtushenko", I used to tease him.

Well, once there was this worldwide meeting of Communist "cultural workers", and Virulo was part of the Cuban delegation. A North Korean delegate approached him and asked him what was his line of work.
"Humor", replied Virulo.
"Oh, we in Korea are past that stage".

This prompted my friend to study more about North Korean theatre and music, and he finally came out with a hilarious puppet show: "Great Harvest in the People's Cooperative Number 27", which has hailed in Pyongyang... as the North Koreans didn't understand the very sharp humor.

"Great Harvest in the People's Cooperative Number 27" played in Havana, too, but was banned shortly after. Unlike the North Koreans, Cuban officials noticed all the acid sarcasm.
This, of course, means that, unlike North Korea's, Cuban Communism hasn't developed past the stage of humor.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 05:19 pm
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 05:38 pm
I'm not too surprised by this, I've readhHe's been so ill for so long, the North Koreans have felt it necessary to release periodic photos of him to prove to the world he's still alive and "in charge". I'm almost a little surprised that they released the news of his death so promptly, rather than trying to sit on it for whatever reason.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 06:22 pm

I remember in 1982, I was in my bathroom, washing my hands,
looking in the mirror, when an idea came into my mind.
The idea was a picture. It was of Leonid Brezhnev,
the commie dictator. He was delivering a speech
as thay used to do in Red Square.

Then, a big black bird landed on Brezhnev's head.
He proceeded to evacuate his bowels over Brezhnev
and on the papers from which he was reading his speech,
thereby preventing Brezhnev from any further continuation.

The next day, the Kremlin announced that Brezhnev was dead.

I 've had no thawts qua Kim's demise, but I 'll take the commies' word for it anyway.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 06:31 pm
@msolga,
According to the initial report of "the dear leader's" death posted here:

Quote:
.... the 69-year-old "passed away from a great mental and physical strain" while on a train trip, on his way to give "field guidance".


I've wondered about the nature of that "field guidance" since ....
Ah, he gave his all to the people & the strain of it did him in!

You know, I've never trusted fat leaders who've demanded greater & greater sacrifices of their people for the greater good. (alway had problems with Mao for that reason. Wink )
I read a report last night about the "great leader's" culinary habits ... like his great fondness for lobster, which he'd have flown direct to wherever he might be ...

Such excesses (only one of quite a number, apparently) when so many north Koreans have endured such hardship, death & starvation under his rule strikes me as being absolutely obscene.
Yet, according to all reports, people were weeping in the streets at the great leader's passing .....
Just shows you, doesn't it, the incredible power of propaganda in a totalitarian state can lead people to believe anything ...
Though, according to media reports, "the outpouring of grief" was not nearly as great as that following the death of his father, the “Great Leader” Kim Il-sung.

-
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 06:35 pm
@msolga,
Don't forget, msolga, that some of this supposed "grief" in the streets could well be staged and orchestrated for publicity purposes. Obviously foreign news media were going to be reporting on the people's reaction and a good face had to be put forward.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2011 06:41 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
If someone feels a need to weep
what purpose is served by going into the street? to go WHERE ?
 

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