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If you are afraid of non-existence, why is this so?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 06:54 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:
Mismi, yes most people believe most of the time that which gives them most comfort. But it's hard to believe that people take comfort in the belief in Hell, unless they are convinced that only their enemies will go there. Hell was imposed on church followers by church leaders.
Suicides & atheists have expressed some complaints about that.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 07:23 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Indeed.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 07:34 pm
This will sound crazy to many but here it is: If I were to go along with the party metaphor I would say that when I die I will take the party with me. My subjective experience of life, which is essentially what it's about FOR ME is more real to me than the idea of "me" occupying space within a life "out there," one which "I" have entered and which "I" will eventually leave. That IS so, in a sense, but for me the more real sense is that of my life being my experience and that when that experience ends so does the life.
I remember before I developed this perspective feeling that I would like to have, after "I" die, regular reports from Walter Cronkite on the state of the world. THAT was a truly crazy perspective as I see it now.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 07:48 pm
@JLNobody,
Yes; u r better off with Fox News.





David
0 Replies
 
Procrustes
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:07 pm
I think the chemicals in your brain have a lot to do with anyones perspective on this question. I've had experiences where I'd be welcoming death, merely from a shift in mood. Other times my mood will be up and all I want to do is live and be happy til the rest of my days. But I don't really know if I'd be afraid or at peace before I die until my final moments come.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:56 pm
@Thomas,
Indeed. As I said initially I have no trouble with fear of death and sadnesss about leaving life and loved ones, especially if we have young children.

My question is not about that.

I have been surprised in discussions with some friends that the thought of not existing causes them terror, even though they believe they will not KNOW they have ceased to exist (though I do wonder if the fear is caused by an inability to imagine really not existing, and their fear of annihilation which perceives itself, but I have no evidence for that.)

THAT I don't "get". For me it can be no more frightening than non-existence was before I somehow became out of the collision between that egg and the little wriggly thing.

I understand fear of the processes of dying....seen 'em up close and personal and some deaths terrify the bejesus out of me.

Understand not wanting to leave the Fair (to me party doesn't resonate, life aint that much fun all the time).....resenting stuff, grieving over stuff I won't see (could be lucky there, I reckon), worrying about people that maystruggle to cope without us......all that I get.


Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:59 pm
Sadly, Christopher Hitchens has left the party.
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 01:53 am
@Thomas,
Damn. It's a lesser party without him, at least for a time. And we will remember him until we wink out, too.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:03 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
Indeed. As I said initially I have no trouble with fear of death and sadnesss about leaving life and loved ones, especially if we have young children.

My question is not about that.

I have been surprised in discussions with some friends that the thought of not existing causes them terror, even though they believe they will not KNOW they have ceased to exist (though I do wonder if the fear is caused by an inability to imagine really not existing, and their fear of annihilation which perceives itself, but I have no evidence for that.)

THAT I don't "get". For me it can be no more frightening than non-existence was before I somehow became out of the collision between that egg and the little wriggly thing.

I understand fear of the processes of dying....seen 'em up close and personal and some deaths terrify the bejesus out of me.

Understand not wanting to leave the Fair (to me party doesn't resonate, life aint that much fun all the time).....resenting stuff, grieving over stuff I won't see (could be lucky there, I reckon), worrying about people that maystruggle to cope without us......all that I get.
Your question is interesting.
Just speaking for myself: I hope that I have fully addressed it,
in that I have no fear of non-existence, nor have I ever feared that
(i.e., I did not fear it before the first time that I left my human body).

However: that is not what actually happens.
( I say that based upon what has consciously happened to me.)
The event that u have in mind is more accurately characterized
as molting, as when a lobster leaves his exoskeleton behind
on the ocean floor and he goes on his merry way in a soft condition
until his new soft exoskeleton hardens. (That 's how thay grow.)
The event can also be compared to a snake leaving his skin
on the floor of a forest, or of a desert as he leaves in a new skin,
or of a chicken dropping off her feathers, possessing a new covering of new feathers.

What I have felt, known, recognized and experienced as being the "REAL me"
has left my human body and has seen my human body a short distance
away ( c.3O feet away ) usually engaged in taking testimony
from witnessess in court, or in 1 case, seeing myself striding around
the room, formally shaking hands with my relatives, expressing thanks
for their assistance, or in another case: having lunch in a restaurant.
It feels nice. Its fun.
Most of the time, this has happened to me when I felt in a mild,
comfortable, mellow condition, like "in-the-groove" e z going state-of-mind.
This has never occurred to me even remotely associated with drugs.

I wish that each event had lasted longer than it did.
Alas, this has not happened to me since the 1980s.





David
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 01:30 pm
@Setanta,
Thanks for typing that out so I could cut and paste it. Brave words for a person with a neighborly relationship with death. They are words that I think can calm others.

A
R
T
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 01:38 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
I have been surprised in discussions with some friends that the thought of not existing causes them terror, even though they believe they will not KNOW they have ceased to exist (though I do wonder if the fear is caused by an inability to imagine really not existing, and their fear of annihilation which perceives itself, but I have no evidence for that.)

THAT I don't "get". For me it can be no more frightening than non-existence was before I somehow became out of the collision between that egg and the little wriggly thing.


Right, I see what you mean. I agree.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 01:58 pm
@Procrustes,
Procrustes wrote:
I think the chemicals in your brain have a lot to do with anyones perspective on this question. I've had experiences where I'd be welcoming death, merely from a shift in mood. Other times my mood will be up and all I want to do is live and be happy til the rest of my days. But

I don't really know if I'd be afraid or at peace before I die until my final moments come.
For your peace of mind, lemme point out
that MANY people who have actually gone thru it
have said that thay simply did NOT CARE,
and that thay were perplexed by the frantic medical efforts
to restore them to human life; thay were not always pleased
at being restored to human life. ( Some of them got mad at the rescuers. )





David
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:06 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
That's an interesting observation, because for christians who want to go to heaven, they'll live forever - without an end. I guess those who go to heaven wants life eternal.

I wonder if children ever age in heaven?
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
They would have to, wouldn't they? If not they would never become old enough to have sex or drink beer, and heaven without those is not heaven.... Smile
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:13 pm
@Cyracuz,
With age, will they all get wrinkly and bent over? No health issues?
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
No. They will age to when they can drink beer, and they can get pissed without ever getting a hangover. And everyone has a larger penis than everyone else, and erections never fail, and women never get pregnant, and everyone are better looking than everyone else, and...

Heaven truly is an absurd notion. Laughing
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:19 pm
@Cyracuz,
It appears to be the case that tho human bodies age n wear out,
spirit is ageless. Children who have died have described resuming adulthood
while thay were out of their human bodies and remaining adults
until thay re-entered their human bodies, being restored to human life.





David
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:21 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I get my religion from this guy.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZJ-_OTvsqo

Be advised: offensive to christians
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:24 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:
Heaven truly is an absurd notion. Laughing
I 've noticed that some people seem to fear
a continuation of life, in varying degrees of fear.

I 'm not sure of the reason.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2011 02:27 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Life is now. The rest is dreams and fantasies.
 

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