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If you are afraid of non-existence, why is this so?

 
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2011 11:15 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Interesting. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Dec, 2011 11:17 pm
@JLNobody,
Dante's inferno was his own concept of hell...it would seem that most believe in what comforts them the most.

But - my understanding is that there are absolutes. There are things that are certain. You just have to know what they are. I am secure in my own beliefs. I wish the same for everyone else.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 01:06 am
@siglawoo,
siglawoo wrote:

Hi,
suppose there is this best party of the world going and you only you are not allowed to go to it ever. how would you feel ? i agree to some points on this post that we will have no sensations no feelings nothing, after we die. But right now i do have feelings, sensation and thats why i fear the non-existence. Although i totally believe in existence after death. Death is not seize to exist, death is transformation and to escape time.



If I didn't know anything about your party I would feel nothing about missing the party.

You wouldn't know you were having no sensations.

Imagine you don't believe in life after death...what is it you fear about an imperceptible lack of existence?

0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 01:09 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

I surmise that u ASSUME that u did not exist
b4 your human body existed; that is questionable.





David


Yes....but this is a thought experiment where I am asking people to accept certain conditions as givens.

I have no interest in debating whether there is life before life or life after death.....I simply wish people to imagine theres nothing before or after and explain any fears that causes them.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 01:10 am
@ehBeth,
There's that rub all over again!
0 Replies
 
Procrustes
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 04:40 am
@dlowan,
Quote:
I simply wish people to imagine theres nothing before or after and explain any fears that causes them.

All fear about death is irrational in my view, whatever the causes. But it is neccersary to serve as the function that 'shocks' the body into some action.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 08:50 am
Random thoughts, after having seen this title a few times and having read (but fairly quickly) all of the responses just now:

- Yes to not knowing, and implications thereof.

- Death is usually not instantaneous or unconscious (o that we all would die in our sleep, when we're good and ready), and whether it is 15 seconds of terror as a semi bears down on you or 15 months of chemotherapy, putting one's affairs in order, and saying goodbye between a cancer diagnosis and death, dying is frequently (if not always) terrifying.

- Even if one takes it as a given that one wouldn't be aware anymore the instant your life is over, when imagining the possibility, one is sad about the things one would lose, which leads naturally enough to fear. This isn't an exact parallel, but when I left L.A. for Chicago I knew that there would be a lot of wonderful things happening there -- back in the Midwest which I love (far more than L.A.), starting my life as a mom with a new baby, etc., etc. Still, I was very sad about leaving L.A. and losing my agency there, the everyday contact with my staff, my beautiful little house, etc.

- One thing I don't think I saw which is related to the fear of death is the fact that I don't want people around me to be behaving like it is completely irrelevant to them whether they live or die. On the freeway, say. Or even just my child's teachers. All kinds of reasons that I want people to be careful about remaining alive for the time being. So it's useful, in general, for them to be afraid of death (and seek to avoid it).
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 08:53 am
@sozobe,
Oh yeah...the fear of pain of death would certainly keep me from being more of an idiot than I already am. Thankfully - most folks have that inner mechanism that works rather well.

But - yes - dying in your sleep sounds amazingly peaceful - especially if you have all your loose ends tied up - like that's ever gonna' happen.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:28 am
@mismi,
Mismi, yes most people believe most of the time that which gives them most comfort. But it's hard to believe that people take comfort in the belief in Hell, unless they are convinced that only their enemies will go there. Hell was imposed on church followers by church leaders.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:06 pm
@dlowan,

OmSigDAVID wrote:
I surmise that u ASSUME that u did not exist
b4 your human body existed; that is questionable.





David
dlowan wrote:
Yes....but this is a thought experiment
where I am asking people to accept certain conditions as givens.

I have no interest in debating whether there is life before life or life after death.....I simply wish people to imagine theres nothing before or after and explain any fears that causes them.
1. In those circumstances, I 'd have no fears.
2. I have no fears anyway.





David
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:32 pm
@dlowan,
Christopher Hitchens made a good point in a video Failures Art recently posted in the Atheism thread: It never is nice to be told that the party will be over soon, and unfortunately that's the future of all of our lives. But it's even worse: the full truth is that we'll have to leave the party, and that the party will go on just fine without us. It's hard not to be pissed off about that, even if one doesn't feel anxiety about it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:38 pm
@dlowan,
Death doesn't scare me, because I've had an experience some years ago when I was involved in a multiple-vehicle accident when I saw through my rear-view mirror a car coming at full speed when I and the traffic in front of me was stopped. I thought to myself, "this is it." That was about 40-years ago, and I'm still here! Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:53 pm
@Thomas,
That's a good point overall. It occurs to me though that when I think of being scared about dying, what scares me most is the thought of those who won't be just fine without me.

I'd be much more at peace dying when I'm 90 and sozlet is grown and I've had a chance to spend time with her kids and everyone has become accustomed to the idea of me not being around much longer, than dying tomorrow. (Knock on wood.)

So it's really just the opposite -- whenever I have a paranoid fantasy (not that I have them often, but the whole "that spot is skin cancer, no it's not, what if it is, ack" sort of thing) what scares me most is how sozlet and E.G. would cope, more than my own death per se.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 02:19 pm
@Thomas,
Ah, when i was listening to that vid, the idea of posting that here also occured to me. I've transcribed his remarks:

Referring to an afterlife, Christopher Hitchens offers the following analogy. "At some point we get tapped on the shoulder and told the party's over, but slightly worse, the party's going on, but you have to leave, and it's going on without you. That's the reflection i think that most upsets people about their demise. Alright then, let's pretend the opposite. Instead, you'll get tapped on the should and told 'Great news, this party's going on forever, and you can't leave. You've got to stay, the Boss says so, and he also insists that you have a good time.' "
Ashers
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 02:30 pm
I like that analogy very much. Smile Thanks for posting it.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 02:33 pm
@Ashers,
Go to the "Atheism" thread, and look for Thomas' post in which he links the discussion. The vid is somewhat north of an hour and a half. I've been listening to it short bursts as i do other things.
Ashers
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 02:40 pm
@Setanta,
Oh wow that does sound interesting. Cheers for the heads-up!

This is something I've been thinking about for a while now. Not death per se, but the roundabout questions posed such as related to "leaving a party" etc.
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 04:04 pm
@JLNobody,
Who said people were comforted by it? I was just saying it would be a cause of fear. Well - that is what I meant to say anyway.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 04:15 pm
@edgarblythe,
Exactly, that's what my Dad said while he was still alive. "I don't fear death, I just don't want to quit living."
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2011 06:50 pm
@Ashers,
Ashers wrote:
Oh wow that does sound interesting. Cheers for the heads-up!

This is something I've been thinking about for a while now. Not death per se,
but the roundabout questions posed such as related to "leaving a party" etc.
People who have actually gone thru it,
usually in hospitals, have informed us (after returning) that thay did not
care
; indeed, some of them described re-entering their human bodies
as being like getting put back in jail, or "getting stuffed into a mayonaise jar."

Some of them expressed joy at being able to return to take care of their children.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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