Why are Jews hated by so many people?

Thanks for the bed time reading Hobit. History certainly gives a perspective on the present. Do you think the founding of the state of Israel has helped or hindered mutual understanding and tolerance?

Yes.

truth
Steve, your last post is extremely well taken. Jews are not universally or automatically hated. The very phrasing of the question by Heywood (where did he go?) tends to invite an anti-semitic response. I am very unhappy with the Israli government's practices vis-a-vis Palestine, but I reject any suggestion that that makes me anti-semitic. I understand that one in five Isrealis oppose Sharon's policies and I'm sure a much greater percentage of American Jews also oppose them.

Sorry for the absence...law school is seriously kicking my behind.

In any case, I'll try to catch up on all the replies (was able to follow for a few responses, then I fell off the earth) asap.

Thanks for hitting the issue!

JLN

As any thinking person knows, there is a clear distinction between the cultural/historical/religious/racial phenomenum of being Jewish, and the political philosophy known as Zionism. One is a subset of the other. Zionists are Jews but it does not follow in logic or in fact that all Jews are Zionists. (I'm sorry I have to spell this out, not for your benefit, but for some I have encountered elsewhere who refuse to argue sensibly).

So while the anti semite will be against a Jewish person, irrespective of political persuasion, it does not follow that someone who opposes Zionism must also be an anti semite. However, it can't be denied that SOME are; and this is where it becomes a convenient smear for the militant zionists to tar all their opponents with the same brush.

I am not an anti semite. Its not just a question of saying it, its a question of knowing it. Therefore I should be completely impervious to charges of anti semitism because I know in my heart of hearts that its not true. But of course it doesn't work like that. It is hurtful and it can be very damaging to be falsely accused of racism. Moreover there is little one can do about it, apart from appealing to one's own conscience. This is why many people steer clear of topics like this, perhaps they are wise to do so.

Or they might be wimps. Take your pick.

Ever thought of the fact that Zionism was partly created by "Gentiles", non-Jews, especially in Europe? Zionism is much more complex than some suggest. Even anti-Zionists - and not anti-Semites - sometimes tend to use arguments that are not valid in this case. Zionism is no more than a form of Jewish nationalism. But - and that makes the difference - where for example European nations had land where they were a majority and where they could stay and make their own country, Jews did not have this land. They saw Israel as their homeland, but they were not a majority there and frankly, the big majority of Jews didn't live there, nor had relatives, nor had their family been there the last two millenia! This has made the situation so difficult. It's normal for a nation to strive for its own land, for a country where they can be among each other as a majority. And most people have this land - but the Jews didn't. I do not say that we just have to approve with all of this, with the way which some Zionists occupied large areas of land in the Holy Land - they also bought areas of course, but a majority of the land was taken by violence -, but a Zionist won't feel bad about it - he just wants a homeland, where he can be safe, and the rising anti-Semitism in some parts of the world only feeds that feeling. And in that case, a Zionist is tend to look rather at the anti-Zionism mixed with anti-Semitism than purely at the plain anti-Zionism, without the anti-Semitism (the Orthodox Satmar are a good example of this). I mean, as a Westerner, I think we tend more to look at Al Qaida and say "they hate us" than at the more general opinion in the Arab and Muslim world which isn't so anti-West - bad news always gets more attention.

I had a jewish girlfriend that broke up with me. I still hate her for that because she was hotter than snot. Perfect bod and she knew how to use it.

truth
Cjhsa, I also had a georgeous Jewish girl break up with me in 1967, because of the heightened nationalism accompanying the seven-day war. I understand it now, but it hurt then. We were engaged; and she ran off with a jewish guy who had the approval of her parents. I am not anti-zionist either, Rick D' Isreali. I can sympathize, as I said above, with the Jewish passion to have a homeland and army where they will be safe, at long last. I just disagree with Sharon's policies, both because of the injustice they perpetrate against Palestinians and because they will not, in the long run, benefit Isreal.

It just seems to me patently absurd to attempt to build a modern state of Israel in Palestine because Jews were forced to leave by the Romans in AD 70.
There have been quite a few movements of peoples and borders since then. Why not put them all back in their original AD 70 positions? Starting with North America perhaps. Its silly to think of Israel as the only safe haven for Jews. The fact is most Jewish people live reasonably contented lives in the country they were born and brought up in. That may not always have been the case, but it is now. Assimilation, mutual respect and tolerance and allegiance to one's own birth country is far better than taking other people's land based on 2000 year old legend myth and dubious history.

Steve, i really rather doubt that you want Ireland and Scotland to be flooded by millions and millions of wealthy Americans who may or may not have an axe to grind with Merry Old.

Don't mind at all. We supply the axes, you bring the cash :wink:

This logic can just as easily be used to crush any Palestinian claim on that piece of desert, especially when it comes to myth and dubious history.

OK I agree

So why the rush to recognise Israel in 1948?

Well, anyone who is Jewish would like to think that it was a benevolent gesture by the UN in the wake of 1/3 of the Jewish population being slaughtered in the holocaust, but the truth is, they needed an ally in a volatile area they previously had no control over, but were buying a ton of oil from. Politics is oily by nature, it seems.

I presume by "they" you mean the USA?

So America, not having an ally in the middle east, decided to make one?

That's my opinion, Steve. The world really didn't care all that much about what was happening to the Jews until after the war was over, and the real atrocities were revealed. During WWII, the US allowed a small pittance of 100 000 Jews to enter the country as refugees, not a fine record, but better than my homeland, Canada, whose Prime Minister at the time said "None is too many." A worldwide sense of guilt, plus oil politics, is what steamrolled the establishment of Israel, IMO.

I am Jewish, and personally, have no problem with a Jewish homeland, but I am completely at odds with Israeli politics. However, it seems that fundamentalist Christians in America have a ton of support for Israel, as Joe Lieberman's connections with Jerry Falwell and Pat Buchanan via the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews indicate. Sure he tried to erase his association with the group when he lamely attempted to get elected, but it's all there.

What is it that Zionists and fundamentalist Christians have in common? Get a stranglehold on those damn Muslims. It's a bit weird that as both the USA and Israel move into more radical religio-political stances, the more they come together....

To answer the original question of this thread:

Jew-hate is a social pathology that has infected most of the world's population for longer periods of time than any other mental illness.
Those who suffer from this pathology are subject to a complete lack of insight into their own delusional thinking, which manifests itself in the belief that Jews possess unlimited power and that they are therefore responsible for every disaster that has ever befallen the rest of humanity.

The mental illness of Jew-hate is caused by individual or national failure and its resulting loss of individual or national self-esteem.

Instead of examining the roots of such individual or national failure, people prefer to redirect such painful, self-critical energy towards the more satisfying and cathartic power of hatred, and towards the immediate reward of violence against those who are guaranteed to never hit back, i.e. the Jews.

PS......because Jew-hate or Anti-Semitism has been an internationally condemned and politically incorrect emotion since the Holocaust, those who engage in it, have redirected their hate for individual Jews, towards hating the State of Israel.

Several years ago, the United Nations became responsible for today's resurgence of Jew-hate and terrorist violence.

To legitimize the evil of terrorism, they adopted the deplorable resolution that terrorists would henceforth be recognized as being FREEDOM FIGHTERS.

This, of course, denied Israel the right to defend itself against terrorist attacks.

So there you are......hate for Israel....hate for Zionism......compassion for Palestinian murderers......it's all the new-millennium re-incarnation of that same old-fashioned JEW-HATE!

Well at the risk of ruining a good argument I agree with you. Except I never really considered the oil factor....sure its important, but I still don't fully understand how an American protectorate called Israel safeguards US oil supply from the middle east.

I get so mad at people like Sharon, that I sometimes go too far and wish Israel could be disestablished and the area handed back to the UN. I still think that America was too hasty in recognising Israel (perhaps your post sheds some light on that) but whats done is done we have to make the best of it.

There is only one way forward. That's Israel with secure borders, and a viable Palestinian state. Will probably take about 2000 years.

I agree with cav on the Jewish situation. However, being non-Jewish, I've been called an anti-Semite, because I am against Sharon's policies in Israel. I have learned it's a useless verbal battle with people who think our disagreements with Sharon's policies mean we hate all Jews. c.i.