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Why are Jews hated by so many people?

 
 
Heywood
 
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 02:43 pm
Whats up with that?

Seriously, I noticed that Jews seem to be the 'whipping boy' of the world, and when you look to some of the arguments that people make nowadays, its so convoluted it just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

You've got that book written about how "evil" they are ("the protocols of the elders of Zion", or something to that effect)
Israel is hated by their neighbors
Hitler went to town on them, and there are even people who make claims that the holocost never happened (what??)

It's like there is just a general anger seems directed towards this one religion and those who practice it. Where's the sense of it all?
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 02:57 pm
"We all need someone we can bleed on" kinda a universal phenonoma like The hispanics despise the mestizos, the mestizos look with contempt on Los Indios, the Indians take it out on their women and dogs. I am working on developing my P.C. skills.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 03:40 pm
Well, first of all, let me go on record as saying that I think whatever it is that Jews have experienced in the world in the way of resentment (I'll get to that in a second) -- that resentment is not wholly the reason there is animosity toward Israel. I am not saying it plays no part -- but I am suggesting that there is not a primary reason.

Israel can piss me off in ways that no Jew ever will. Israel -- where it is -- presents problems for the world that simply cannot be resolved.

But let that story pass for now...although I expect I will have some explaining to do before this thread runs its course.



Heywood, 30 years ago, a Jewish go-go dancer I was dating -- one of the finest looking, sexiest women I've ever had a relationship with -- answered your question for me with a statement I have embraced wholeheartedly since.

She said, "They're jealous of us. They resent us. We are achievers."

Jews are achievers -- plain and simple. They get things done; they make things happen; they contribute; they succeed; they help other Jews to succeed -- and they have more fun doing it than any other bloc I can think of.

They are achievers -- and, unfortunately, people are jealous of them for that.

The price they often pay for their propensity to succeed and achieve -- the price they often pay for the jealousy all that engenders -- is to be hated.

Too bad, that.

It would be much better for the world if gentiles would learn the ingredients of their successes -- and put that information to good use among non-Jews.



I am fast coming to the conclusion that many of the new Asian émigrés into the various nations will experience something similar to what the Jews have gone through. The too are achievers. But they are just now coming out of the East. The Jews were dispersed almost 2000 years ago -- and the hatreds have had a chance to fester and develop calluses.

That is why questions such as yours get asked. We have difficulty seeing the obvious on this issue.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 03:51 pm
Anti-Semitism goes back many centuries. For a good overview, read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots_of_anti-Semitism
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 04:07 pm
TheJews are not unique in the hatred they have experienced - there are many other ethnic groups that have experienced hatred and genocide just as vile.

(I am not at all minimizing the effect of anti-semitism or the horrific nature of the Holocaust. I am just pointing out that neither is unique.)

I suspect part of the reason we single out anti-semitism is because its victims are culturally and ethnically very much like us (i.e. European and white).

The Gypsies the Kurds and Native Americans - to name a few off the top of my head all experienced both virulent racism and systematic genocide.

I think anti-Arab sentiment is currently the biggest problem in the US right now.
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 04:21 pm
ebrown_p - I hear ya, but I think that there is a difference in the hatred that is heaped upon the Jewish people, as opposed to some other ethnic group. The difference is the amount of time that anti-Semitism has existed, and the pervasiveness of anti-Semitism around the world.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 04:30 pm
It is worth noting that the Jews were resolutely "different" wherever they have lived since the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE and the subsequent diaspora. Scapegoating the weak and relatively defenseless is an ancient practice of "the ruling classes," and in European history, the Jews were always handy for the purpose. Additionally, throughout the first millenium of the current era, christians were prohibited from lending money at interest, known as usury, but the Jews suffered no such debility. Certainly some, and perhaps even many, christians did loan money. It's a hell of a lot easier though, to default on a loan by whipping up a riot against the Jews, or, if you're the King, simply banning them from your kingdom, than it is to try to weasel out of your debt to a christian who is not subject to such intimidation.

Throughout history, religious differences have been a clincher for demonizing someone, and very handy for distracting the population from the venality and corruption of one's own regime. It hasn't gone away either--witness the evil psychiatrist from Sarajevo, Karadzic, who whipped up anti-muslim fervor among Bosnian Serbs to the point at which the Bosnian muslims (most of whom were "lapsed" muslims) were routinely referred to by Serbs as "Turks."

In many respects, the Jews were simply the handiest, ready-made scapegoats.
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ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 05:06 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
ebrown_p - I hear ya, but I think that there is a difference in the hatred that is heaped upon the Jewish people, as opposed to some other ethnic group. The difference is the amount of time that anti-Semitism has existed, and the pervasiveness of anti-Semitism around the world.


I don't know how you would measure such a thing... but I still don't think that either the amount of time nor the pervasivness of anti-Semitism makes it unique.

Consider the Gypsies for example.

It seems to me that there are three things going on that explain the perceived differences between anti-semitism and bigotry faced by other groups.

1. The Holocaust is a recent large-scale genocide that happened in Europe. It was commited by a power that was defeated by Western forces. Compare this with the Armenian genocide, for example.

2. Victims of anti-semitism have the resources and finances to combat it (as opposed to Gypsies and others).

3. The issue is clouded by the politics. The history of anti-semitism is sometimes embellished by some to back up political claims. The worse example of this are the claims that opposition to Israel's occupation of Palestine is motivated by anti-semitism.
oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 05:48 pm
Many races, nationalities have been hated for one reason or another. Predudice can be found in most places. The haters can create hatred, bigotry out of anything. In fact any reason that might be an excuse for gunfire.
My father spent time in India before independance.
He told me, that if I want to see hatred/predudice, then go & see it there. It's endemic between the various religions. Go to the Balkans, the various racial groups there have been killing each other for 100s of years. Go to Africa & see the tribal battles
throughout most of that continent.
I've spent some time in Israel & seen both sides of the place. I've seen the Zealots carry machine guns to stop people riding busses on the Sabbath. I've spent time in Arab cafes & enjoyed a very good meal indeed.
Perhaps the reason a lot of people get very tired of Israel is because of the never ending death, the way Israel thinks that the world owes them a living & also perhaps it's because Israel seems to have a huge chip on it's shoulder.
Life is a two way street. We all drive along it in one direction or another, but we don't carry guns, at least I don't. Nor do I hate anyone but then I don't carry any millstones or any emotional baggage either.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 05:51 pm
ebrown_p-I can agree with your first two points, but not the 3rd. Anti-Semitism has been around for centuries, long before the State of Israel and the Palestinian people butted heads.

Quote:
The worse example of this are the claims that opposition to Israel's occupation of Palestine is motivated by anti-semitism.


I do think that some people will label any view as anti-Semitic if it is pro-Palestinian, and criticizes Israel. It is very similar to people in America who view any concept that does not favor African Americans as racist.

It is this sort of "groupthink" that clouds issues, and does not allow people (and countries) to work through their problems with one another.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 05:56 pm
Quote:
the way Israel thinks that the world owes them a living


Oldandknew- Would you please clarify this for me? I really don't know to what you are referring.
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oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 06:14 pm
Isrealis/Jews have been victims throughout Europe for centuries. In Russia, Poland, Romania, Germany and many other countries. WW2 was the ultimate suffering. It was nearly 60 years ago.
The whole of Europe & much of Asia fell victim to the evil of that time. Other nationalities have gotten over it & put it behind then. They don't dwell on the matter, yet Israel still holds up the Holocaust as if the rest of the world was to blame.
I grew up in the flight path path of Nazi planes & machine guns, in a city that was bombed almost into oblivion. Many 1000s of people were killed
It's history that I don't dwell on & I live in the here & now. We shouldn't forget history but remember today & look forward to tomorrow
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Individual
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 08:58 pm
Oldandknew, about your comment concerning the people carrying machine guns to stop people from riding the buses...are you sure it wasn't the military that you saw?
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rufio
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2004 09:41 pm
The whole thing about how Jews are acheivers and everyone is jealous of them only helps fuel the elitism here. For whatever reason, anti-semitism exists, and then we claim that it's because we're better and play the poor abused stepchild and this makes everyone else resent us more. There have been great acheivers throughout history that were Jewish, catholic, prodestant, muslim, whatever, and though some of them were resented, their entire religion wasn't resented as a result as well.

Also, gypsies were killed during the holocaust just like Jews were, for what it's worth. I do think the Jewish community overplays the holocaust a bit (dare I say such a thing?) and leaves out the 6 million NON-Jewish victims, which I guess is only to be expected. I don't think it's a "pity us" sort of a thing there, it's more like a racial identity of sorts. You're supposed to take everything that happens to Jews in Europe, Israel, wherever sort of personally, so you end up hearing a lot about it.
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oldandknew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 04:48 am
Individual -------- quite certain about the guns. The extremist Jews were inside Jerusalem bus station & carrying guns preventing people using the busses till sabbath was over. Sun set.
We weren't allowed inside & the Israeli soldiers were outside protecting people waiting to get a bus.. this was in 1974
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 09:14 am
What annoys me about this type of discussion is the deliberate confusion of anti Zionism and anti Semitism. Until people demonstrate that they understand the difference, I don't participate.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 09:22 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
What annoys me about this type of discussion is the deliberate confusion of anti Zionism and anti Semitism. Until people demonstrate that they understand the difference, I don't participate.



It definitely is a problem, Steve. That is why I mentioned it early in my post. Glad you mentioned it.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 09:38 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
What annoys me about this type of discussion is the deliberate confusion of anti Zionism and anti Semitism. Until people demonstrate that they understand the difference, I don't participate.


Ditto, Steve!

The other thing of concern is the confusion between Judaism, the religion and Judaism, the ethnicity. There is and always has been, a big difference.

Is the hatred, referred to on this thread, directed towards the "religion" or the "ethnicity"? Sad
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 09:45 am
Whenever this subject is discussed...I always assume that "ethnicity" is being discussed.

The religion angle is a non-starter -- often both for the haters and the folks being hated.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 10:48 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
I am fast coming to the conclusion that many of the new Asian émigrés into the various nations will experience something similar to what the Jews have gone through. The too are achievers. But they are just now coming out of the East. The Jews were dispersed almost 2000 years ago -- and the hatreds have had a chance to fester and develop calluses.

One would think.
But preservation of tradition is a tradition in itself among Jews. It's just amazing how they are still around today.
The same cannot be said of Asians. They are fast abandoning their own culture and today they are doing it very willingly. 3rd and 4th generation Asian Americans have virtually no connection to Asian culture. They may even be in a worse position than 3rd or 4th generation Irish or Italians because Asians do not share a common religion. Religion is essential in preserving culture.
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