Reparations

BTW, do you think Iraqis were mistreated/injured by Saddam? After all, Kurds, Sunnis and Shia are all social constructs. When and how are they going to get their "reparations?" Your argument that the US is a "democracy" doesn't fly. You can't argue it's ideals while knowing it's only a social construct with many faults. You know, humans still go to war and kill each other - even in "democracies" such as Ireland.

Noah has a selective historical memory. There was an attempt at reparations during the reconstruction era (c.1866-1877). The 40 acres and a mule program which was designed to break up and distribute large southern land holding to former slaves.

There are two points here reparations were tried, in the context of what at the time was thought to be an appropriate manner, and secondly, reparations have proved historically to be a poor way of solving a problem.

Although radical in his concept of total war, Sherman was quite conservative in racial matters. He believed that blacks were incapable of becoming good combat soldiers, and he consistently opposed the Union policy of enlisting black troops in the last half of the war. Wishing to free his army of the encumbrance of several thousand refugee blacks, he issued Special Field Order No. 15 in January 1865. This order set aside for the exclusive use of freed slaves a coastal strip of land from Charleston, South Carolina, to Jacksonville, Florida. Blacks quickly settled on this land, but before they could secure legal title President Andrew Johnson returned that land to its former rebel owners in the fall of 1865.

What Noah is proposing is another ripoff of the federal treasury

noah, I dropped out when this got to be a silverback chest thumping between you and craven.
you see the issue as an entitlement, many of us do not.
the metrics that ci has suggested, youve just dismissed and immediately tried to be rude to his suggestions . his comments are a core issue that by your dismissal, demonstrates that your mind is closed on the subject. well so is mine.
Craven had an idea that this shouldnt become a validation thead, well, even with more cooperative guests, thats a hard direction to maintain, and it takes a strong facilitator . otherwise it degrades into what we see here.
Nothing profound has been said with a few notable exceptions , one of those who Ive personally felt was an exception was ci and Frank. Ive noted that , when you get cubby holed you go for the ad hominem attack. Poor debating skills 9of course thats an ad hominem also, but Ive never been taking part seriously in responding to your diatribes)

First, IMO, any such targeted program should be aimed at African Americans gaining the means by which to be self-sufficient. IMO, beyond resources that requires a permanent apparatus or mechanism that ensures that self-sufficiency and fosters it.

... then a community based perspective is one that must be considered. By community I actually mean the infrastructure and all the institutions that make up the cities and town that we live in.

A good, thriving, functioning community free of wide scale vice is the necessary backdrop to large scale people and community wide improvement.

Instead of just No Child Left Behind there should be No [Inner]-City Left Behind. There's a whole line of study about how the creation of the suburbs reflect racist government sanctioned policies to the detriment of largely black innercities, etc.

In terms of IMPLEMENTATION... simply put:
WHERE THERE IS A WILL. THERE IS A WAY!

As far as dollar amounts well, I just heard someone forward an idea of about $87 Billion for what they called a Thurgood Marshall Plan earmarked for the 50 neediest cities.

As far as who pays... I have a solution for that too!.... A way where none of those questions about "Why Should I Pay?" would be left unsatisfied. But, again, I have to question whether that is the real issue with people that are against reparations. It's been my experience that for the most part when [my] model that would eliminate that concern is offered that the objections still remain. So, I'm left to believe that it really is more than about something like this proverbially "Taking [My] Money" Again, I have a model that eliminates that but doesn't eliminate the opposition. Matter of fact, it usually becomes even more vehement afterwards.... Imagine that!

And seriously if as I posed there is a model wherein your tax moneyt isn't concerned then what does it matter what you think about it?
It's no sweat of your brow as they say. Nothing would be coming out your pockets. What else is there to say? And what would be you motivation or reason for saying anything then?

If there was a way for there to be reparations without using your taxes...
would you approve of it? Would that satisfy your displeasure with it?

...in another post you propose to fund with a combination of payments from the government and corporations.

<> reparations have proved historically to be a poor way of solving a problem.

Your historical examples??? ____ OBVIOUSLY LACKING ____

"Solving a problem?"
What problem do you think reparations purports to solve?

You have no program or at least nothing original or of substance. And, if the 60's or reconstruction taught us anything, it was that dumping money or resources onto a problem does little more than create opportunities for scam artists.

<> reparations have proved historically to be a poor way of solving a problem.

Your historical examples???
[Hint: Great Society doesn't count. It was not a historical form of Reparations.... I don't think we have to define the word or take this any further.]

"Solving a problem?"
What problem do you think reparations purports to solve?

If Noah wanted a good argument, he should speak to the issue of current discriminatory practices.

Forget reparations and the historic perspective of injustice. There's all kinds of injustice suffered by the majority on this planet.

He may wish and think he can win the argument for reparations, but he doesn't understand American politics.

As for current discriminatory practices against black Americans, I can find several without even putting in any effort.

Centroles' quote, "I think affirmative action should be based on socioeconomic class." I totally agree.

But he wants money. What a sad goal to pursue.

It's a waste of time. I quit; you win!

I don't enjoy banging my head against a brick wall; nothing gained.