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AZ-08 Has not had Representation for 311 Days

 
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 09:36 am
@hawkeye10,
I think you are viewing this from a slightly different angle than most. I doubt the people of AZ-08 are saying "poor Giffords is a victim, let's give her a House seat." I think they are saying "we refuse to let violence induce political change." The reality is that violence is often a very effective way of inducing political change (example: Yitzhak Rabin) but it very much goes against our political grain. My take is that as long as Gifford's office is handling their needs, those affected are choosing to make a statement that they will stand by their elected representative rather than allow violence to force them to change and that is a political statement they are allowed to make. You may not like it but it's not an invalid statement nor is it "bad behavior". The refusal to be forced to make political change at gunpoint is a stand that I think would resonate with Americans across the country and woe be to the House leadership that attempts to interfere with that choice.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 09:58 am
@engineer,
Quote:
I think you are viewing this from a slightly different angle than most.
Because that would not be unusual Drunk

Quote:
I think they are saying "we refuse to let violence induce political change.
But they are apparently fine with allowing violence to deprive them of their representation in the House....which is far worse of an offense.

Quote:
The refusal to be forced to make political change at gunpoint is a stand that I think would resonate with Americans across the country and woe be to the House leadership that attempts to interfere with that choice.
Which fits in nicely with my argument that we are a sick people in a dying civilization...none of our recent forefathers would have tolerated this abuse of democracy, they understood that maintaining the health of the democratic systems is far far more important than the desires or the best interests of any single individual.

sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 10:08 am
@hawkeye10,
As Butrflynet pointed out, Gabrielle Gifford's office is doing quite a lot. That doesn't seem incidental or trivial to me.

Gabrielle Giffords was voted in because people agreed with her policies and approach to politics. She hand-selected this group of people who now make up her office, with the intent of working together to implement her vision. In that way, she is still the representative, as these people take her stated vision and priorities and work to make them happen.

If Giffords is unable to recover fully before the next election, I think it would make sense that her second-in-command, or whomever has been most instrumental in the work that her office has been doing since the injury, goes ahead and runs in her place.

I think engineer's point about not encouraging removal from office by gunshot is a good one.
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 10:09 am
The members of the minority party in the House of Representatives are largely ciphers anyway, although only a few of them have the excuse that they suffer from medically certifiable brain damage. All the Democrats in the house could take a year-long vacation and the results would largely be the same, so Giffords's absence from her duties is hardly consequential. Indeed, the country would benefit if more congressmen could be induced to take extended breaks from their duties.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 10:20 am
@sozobe,
Quote:
If Giffords is unable to recover fully before the next election, I think it would make sense that her second-in-command, or whomever has been most instrumental in the work that her office has been doing since the injury, goes ahead and runs in her place.
She is never going to recover fully, the question is whether she can ever recover enough to speak well enough to function or think well enough to function in a leadership role. The time to decide who will try to be the representative in that district in the next Congress is now, there is no way we can wait till Nov 3 2012 to decide if Giffords should be allowed to run unopposed. THose who want the job have decided that running before she publicly states that she does not want to stay is a political career ender, which just goes to show how deranged we are. Whom ever wants the job should jump in, and then let the people choose.... not giving the people the chance to vote for a person whom is actually able to do the job is a bastardization of democracy.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 10:33 am
@sozobe,
Quote:
If Giffords is unable to recover fully before the next election, I think it would make sense that her second-in-command, or whomever has been most instrumental in the work that her office has been doing since the injury, goes ahead and runs in her place.


Our government does not work in that manner and only repeat only a congressman can cast votes.

Her office may be doing the secondary tasks that a congressperson does but it is surely not doing it main duties.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 10:37 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Her office may be doing the secondary tasks that a congressperson does but it is surely not doing it main duties.
And others in the house are trying to carry her load by getting pork for her district since she can not...when what they actually should be doing is demanding that Arizona send someone to do her work since she can not. The House of Representatives of the United States of America is not intended to be a charity institution, and it should not be allowed to become on at the expense of democracy, let the rest of the House membership represent their own districts only as they are intended to.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 10:59 am
@BillRM,
Right, and I do agree that's significant. This shouldn't continue indefinitely.

But the point is that it's not zero representation. The people she chose before she was shot are doing things that, before she was shot, she wanted to get done.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 11:06 am
@sozobe,
Quote:
Right, and I do agree that's significant. This shouldn't continue indefinitely
If the situation does not get fixed PDQ by people signing up to run for the seat then the only fix will be for the House to act....and given how dysfunctional that body is expecting that to happen would not be a good bet. The right thing would be for Giffords to say that she is not able to do the job and that since her district deserves to have someone representing them who can actually do the job she will not stand for the office...... but alas she shows no inclination towards doing the right thing anytime soon.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 11:07 am
@hawkeye10,
The longest it could go on is 2 years. I doubt the Republic will fall.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 11:08 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
district deserves to have someone representing them who can actually do the job she will not stand for the office...... but alas she shows no inclination to do the right thing.


That is surprising and even more so given the high power husband who should clearly see the same thing.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 11:08 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

The longest it could go on is 2 years. I doubt the Republic will fall.
So is that the standard now....let any one person have what they want so long as the republic does not fall because of it??
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 11:10 am
@hawkeye10,
They make congressional districts for one person? Who knew?

I want my own congressional district....
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 11:11 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
district deserves to have someone representing them who can actually do the job she will not stand for the office...... but alas she shows no inclination to do the right thing.


That is surprising and even more so given the high power husband who should clearly see the same thing.


Quote:
Mark Kelly, the husband of injured Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) reportedly slammed House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) for not having visited his wife during her recovery – but Boehner’s office says the speaker has been in close contact with Giffords’ staff and met recently with Kelly.

“Considering that she was a member of Congress and he was the highest-ranking member, we thought he’d ask to visit Gabby or at least give a call to see how she was doing,” Kelly writes in a new book, “Gabby - A Story of Courage and Hope,” that he co-authored with Giffords, according to CNN. “Our only contact with him had been a simple get-well card he’d sent a few days after Gabby was injured.”



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68472.html#ixzz1dtCGaGa6


Like the wife he seems to have the mindset of "it is all about ME". Kelly and Giffords should be bowing down to kiss Boehner’s feet for not moving to remove her name from the door of the office that she is never in as he should have done long ago, instead they bitch that he is not doing enough for them....**** these entitled ass-holes.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 12:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Like the wife he seems to have the mindset of "it is all about ME".

Actually, that is a military mindset. It goes without saying that a superior officer will as a minimum show up bedside for an injuried member of the team. I'm sure Kelly was brought up in that tradition and not the political one that calls for Giffords to "be bowing down to kiss Boehner’s feet ".
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 12:25 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Actually, that is a military mindset. It goes without saying that a superior officer will as a minimum show up bedside for an injuried member of the team. I'm sure Kelly was brought up in that tradition and not the political one that calls for Giffords to "be bowing down to kiss Boehner’s feet ".
Let me remind you that hubby was never elected to anything, he has no legitimacy in directing the office of Representative Giffords, but it sure looks like that is what is happening doesn't it...
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 01:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
I haven't read the book so I couldn't say what role Kelly is playing on team Gifford or whether that role was appropriate. I was only commenting that expecting the boss to show up in person to see an injured team member does not scream of a sense of entitlement, but a sense of obligation between subordinate and superior that is routine in the military. It doesn't surprise me that Boehner's failure to do what a military man would see as his bare minimum obligation would provoke a comment.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 11:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Where were you when Ronny Raygun was president and had alzheimers?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2011 11:37 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Where were you when Ronny Raygun was president and had alzheimers?
So far as I know very few people were aware at the time of his problem. He should not have run for a second term if he knew at the time, but I dont think that we know yet when he got diagnosed. At the very least we are going to have to wait for Nancy to pass before that information is going to be released. I am hoping that she has a book in the can waiting for that date, or that someone does.

Clearly I do not believe the claims that he did not know till 2004. He had too good of medical care for this to be possible.


From 1986
Quote:
As she, her husband, and her eight-year-old daughter were about to enter the Oval Office, Reagan's press secretary, Larry Speakes, told Stahl, "No questions at all, about anything." Stahl was angered by this, but she soon saw why Speakes had issued this instruction. When she and her family entered the office, the 75-year-old Reagan was standing by a Remington sculpture of a rearing horse, and Stahl immediately began to fret:

Reagan was as shriveled as a kumquat. He was so frail, his skin so paper-thin. I could almost see the sunlight through the back of his withered neck…His eyes were coated. Larry introduced us, but he had to shout. Had Reagan turned off his hearing aid?

…Reagan didn't seem to know who I was. He gave me a distant look with those milky eyes and shook my hand weakly. Oh, my, he's gonzo, I thought. I have to go out on the lawn tonight and tell my countrymen that the president of the United States is a doddering space cadet. My heart began to hammer with the import...I was aware of the delicacy with which I would have to write my script. But I was quite sure of my diagnosis.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/reagan-alzheimers-family-feud-lesley-stahl
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 11:16 pm
Quote:
“She will forever have a very special place in all of Arizona’s heart for the price she has paid for public service,” Coughlin said.

Coughlin said that Giffords’ ability to serve in Congress is a legitimate question that will have to be raised at some point in an election campaign by her opponent, but it won’t be easy.

“They’ll be booed out of the room initially for doing it,” he said.

Coughlin said that voters over time will begin to examine for themselves her capacity to serve, and he believes that Giffords will have that same litmus test for herself. He spoke with Kelly in recent months and got the impression that Kelly viewed his wife’s return to a meaningful public service role as helpful to her recovery.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/a-year-after-tucson-shooting-a-decision-about-giffords-political-future-looms/2012/01/07/gIQAMoR2gP_story_2.html

Her ability to do her job should have been topic one about 340 days ago. Her refusal to get the **** out should be topic one now.
0 Replies
 
 

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