Has Humanity, as a whole, gone down the drain?

@Setanta,

I have never read much of Hesiod, but I picked up a couple of Histories of Philosophy out of the many I own, and my translation of Windelband mentions Hesiod once, and Russell mentions him four or five times in relation to the works of Plato and the humanistic behavior he, with Homer, gave to the gods... Now, it is a curiosity, but relevent, that when people made heaven and the gods accessible and near, they were capable of godlike behavior, what we might say ass powerful... They were literally great in our estimation in an age when people thought they could access heaven with a beanstalk or a ladder or a tower of babble, and as Dr. Johnson pointed out more eloquently, our ability to add to the knowledge of humanity is slight, while God, and heaven are both beyond our reach... I will say that Windelband seems to look at Hesiod as a turning point, and there was perhaps much of self consciousness and ferment in his age pointing toward a future greatness of the people... But this does not disagree with what Hesiod said... My point is a much that human greatness, what we think of as civilization actually depends upon human immorality, and for that reason Plato and others wanted a good moral influence from the gods rather than the spectacle of the god behaving no better than men at their worst..

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@Fido,

Setanta wrote:

Jesus Christ, you don't know what the **** you're talking about. Ten to one you'd never heard of Hesiod until you read that post. Greece was not suffering from violence and "economic inequalities" in the eighth and seventh centuries before the common era. You're just making **** up while you build castles in the air.

This individual came here for some insight into the world, not some bullshit historical fairy tale that you made up--made up because you can, not because you know what the **** you're talking about.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

U might be interested to know that Fido has
(more than 1ce) admitted to multiple mental disorders,
for which he has been professionally treated.

Fido wrote:

As my dog once told me while I was talking with Elvis: Shove it up your ass... David; Your crack's still broke...

Give my regards to Elvis, Fido. Ask him to sing "Hound Dog" for u.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

Multiple mental disorders would account for his almost incoherent rambling, but it doesn't explain his profound ignorance of history. It would explain, though, why he wouldn't let a little thing like said ignorance dissuade him from ranting on, and on, and on, and on . . .

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Hesiod flourished at the beginning of what is known as the classical era of Greek history. This lasted until the Persian wars, and then the disastrous Peloponnesian War. In that classical period, there were no major wars in the Balkan peninsula, and the Greeks enjoyed a high degree of what one might call domestic tranquility, and an expansion of trade and a concommitant growth in affluence. Fido is making **** up, as usual.

I have no interest in Hesiod as a philosopher. He is, however, an important commentator on Greek society. The quote i provided was to show the author of the thread that for thousands of years, people have complained about the decay of civility and morals in their respective societies. Leaving all of Fido's bullshit aside, i consider it to have been an appropriate response to the thread's author.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

His ignorance of history may well be related to his hallucinating portions of the material that he writes to us.
Maybe he believes its true.
I think that he has described it as something like (approximately): inspired thinking, or something similar.

I don 't mean to be unkind to Fido.
I hope that he will have a happy & comfortable life.

I 'm not saying that he is a bad person; ( I AM saying that he appears to be non compos mentis ),
but corresponding with him on-line can be tedious & unrewarding,
with his multiple layers of confusions. The prospect of disentangling them is very daunting.

I think that it is easier on the rest of us,
if we bear in mind that he might well be lost in delusions
while he is writing to us.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Setanta wrote:
Jesus Christ, you don't know what the **** you're talking about. Ten to one you'd never heard of Hesiod until you read that post. Greece was not suffering from violence and "economic inequalities" in the eighth and seventh centuries before the common era. You're just making **** up while you build castles in the air.

This individual came here for some insight into the world, not some bullshit historical fairy tale that you made up--made up because you can, not because you know what the **** you're talking about.
OmSigDAVID wrote:
U might be interested to know that Fido has
(more than 1ce) admitted to multiple mental disorders,
for which he has been professionally treated.

Fido wrote:
As my dog once told me while I was talking with Elvis: Shove it up your ass... David; Your crack's still broke...

Give my regards to Elvis, Fido. Ask him to sing "Hound Dog" for u.

David

You ask him... When he gets his head out of your refrigerator...

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Hesiod flourished at the beginning of what is known as the classical era of Greek history. This lasted until the Persian wars, and then the disastrous Peloponnesian War. In that classical period, there were no major wars in the Balkan peninsula, and the Greeks enjoyed a high degree of what one might call domestic tranquility, and an expansion of trade and a concommitant growth in affluence. Fido is making **** up, as usual.

I have no interest in Hesiod as a philosopher. He is, however, an important commentator on Greek society. The quote i provided was to show the author of the thread that for thousands of years, people have complained about the decay of civility and morals in their respective societies. Leaving all of Fido's bullshit aside, i consider it to have been an appropriate response to the thread's author.

I will not deny that it was appropriate; or even that it was very appropriate... What you should understand, is that society may not progress for thousands of years in a primitive state simply because the forms of society are at a state of perfection, and that all human progress in a meterial sense comes from the degeneration of society is a moral sense... In a primitive society respect and honors go naturally to the old; but once the economy of honor is broken, the knowledge of the old, cultural knowledge is worthless, and every man's right and rule is in his strength so that the young win every contest, and the spell of the past is broken...

To give you an example: In colonial times a group of pioneers being guided by two Native youths were led by the older of the two into a swamp... When the Whites descovered that the younger of the two actually knew they had strayed from the path, and had said nothing, they were angry... The youth tried to explain that the young follow the old, and do not question their authority, and in this fashion the young were put in charge of the younger so that the adults could go about the business of survival without fear for the safe keeping of their children... People were held accountable on both ends, and age itself along with survival was thought a mark of learning and skill... What Hesiod says has great implications... It points to a breakdown of society which always occurs when the society had allowed itself to be divided by wealth and booty... They are on the glide path to extinction because they have lost the ability to stand as one and act as a unit...

The individual accumulation of wealth leaves the commonwealth without a concerted defense, and for that reason so many societies are defeated and hauled off into slavery...Ibn Kaldun, the great Muslim Historian chronicled many such rises and falls of native peoples in their conquests and failure in his Muqaddima.... What it takes to be great is lost in greatness so that societies and civilizations are soon washed away... What people need to stay great is found in gentile communities, which is to say: Honor, Respect, and Universal Justice...

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

His ignorance of history may well be related to his hallucinating portions of the material that he writes to us.
Maybe he believes its true.
I think that he has described it as something like (approximately): inspired thinking, or something similar.

I don 't mean to be unkind to Fido.
I hope that he will have a happy & comfortable life.

I 'm not saying that he is a bad person; ( I AM saying that he appears to be non compos mentis ),
but corresponding with him on-line can be tedious & unrewarding,
with his multiple layers of confusions. The prospect of disentangling them is very daunting.

I think that it is easier on the rest of us,
if we bear in mind that he might well be lost in delusions
while he is writing to us.

Funny me... I keep hallucinating that you are human being until I realize you are some filty flea bit monkey playing with his ****... Have a nice day..

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@Fido,

Setanta wrote:

Jesus Christ, you don't know what the **** you're talking about. Ten to one you'd never heard of Hesiod until you read that post. Greece was not suffering from violence and "economic inequalities" in the eighth and seventh centuries before the common era. You're just making **** up while you build castles in the air.

This individual came here for some insight into the world, not some bullshit historical fairy tale that you made up--made up because you can, not because you know what the **** you're talking about.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

U might be interested to know that Fido has
(more than 1ce) admitted to multiple mental disorders,
for which he has been professionally treated.

Fido wrote:

As my dog once told me while I was talking with Elvis: Shove it up your ass... David; Your crack's still broke...

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Give my regards to Elvis, Fido. Ask him to sing "Hound Dog" for u.

David

Fido wrote:

You ask him... When he gets his head out of your refrigerator...

Sure, Fido, right.

I 'm sorry for offending u.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

I will let you know when you start offending me... I am one dog who is amused by every idiot who tries to tie a rag to my tail... I don't get it... Dogs make the best humans and when anyone is having a bad day they want to kick a dog... So kick me and see if I care... Really... I mean it... I might howl for those suffering injury and injustice but I don't know what I would do if I could really give a **** about humanity... No matter how much you strain humanity you always get too many Davids who identify with the Goliaths...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

I will let you know when you start offending me...

U already did that. I understand; I don 't mind. Its OK.

Fido wrote:

I am one dog who is amused by every idiot who tries to tie a rag to my tail... I don't get it...
Dogs make the best humans and when anyone is having a bad day
they want to kick a dog...

I regret having hurt your feelings, Fido. I say that sincerely. I have no reason to believe that u r a bad person.
I apologize for kicking u.
We have gotten different kinds of crazy people on this forum
and on its predecessor, Abuzz. Some r fun to play with (verbally).
Others r not.

In your case, its kind of hard work to figure out what u r saying,
and then even harder to try to correct it, either by use of logic
or by comparing actual, real history to what u alleged.

U write such long, long essays with such large numbers of errors
that I just don 't know how to deal with that. The most that I can do
is maybe to address just one easy one and forget the rest.
I don 't know what else to do. I love argument; I always have; its fun,
but I don t know to deal with that much error.
Meaning no disrespect, I have a hunch
that even you yourself do not understand a lot of what u write.
I 'm not sure about that; I might be incorrect.

Let me make this comparison:
in the 1970s, a girl of my acquaintace named Laura
was frequenting a school (of sorts) that we 'd both attended.
Over the months that went by,
I saw that she was looking sad, depressed, not taking care of herself
as well as b4. I felt sad for her. I decided to try to cheer her up
by taking her to dinner in a nice restaurant. I wanted to raise her self esteem.
Over dinner, from what she said it became clear to me that
the depths of her mental illness were far, far greater than I had suspected.

I had no idea of how to cope with that. I 'm not a psychiatrist.
I coud not proceed further, tho I liked her as a person; it was simply beyond my abilities.

Fido, I hope that things will happen in your life that make u very happy.
I hope that your life will be filled with beauty.

I remain at a loss to know how to handle your posts here.

Truely, I wish u the best of good luck.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Where did you find the happy pills??? Don't look now, but your pet rat needs a walk... And if I were you, and thank God I am not, I would do it... And the exercise will be good for both of you...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

Where did you find the happy pills??? Don't look now, but your pet rat needs a walk... And if I were you, and thank God I am not,
I would do it... And the exercise will be good for both of you...

OK, Fido.
I 'm not much for exercise.

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@Fido,

There is nothing you have to tell me that i "should understand." You make this **** up as you go along, and you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Stop wasting your time and cluttering up a thread, in which you have provided not one shred of useful observation. Don't reply to my posts and i won't keep telling you that you are an . . .

Idiot.

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@Setanta,

I will give you a penny for your thoughts, and for you, that is a bargain... I don't make **** up... I draw conclusions from the many books I have read on many subjects... What have you read, and where did you go to school???... Clearly you are no idiot, but you are some world class ass.

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@Setanta,

I see you as some knowledgable jackass who cannot draw proper conclusions from his learning... As little as I love you I would only love you more if you would prove me wrong rather than calling me an idiot and presuming me wrong...

Let me say it again: Where money is dear, honor is cheap... Where honor is dear, money is meaningless, usually because poverty is so common... In poor places, honor is the currency people live by, and in rich places, money is the equal of honor as poverty is the equal of dishonor...Even today, when people with money go to places where honor actually means something, where people will cut the throats of their own children to retrieve their honor, they are hurt and surprised that they are not honored for their wealth by people who barely have their needs met... Honor is the essential of trust, and if people could not be trusted they would have no homes, and no man who could be trusted could dare leave hsi home to make his living... This is the meaning of rehabilitation, of being restored to honor and to home, habitation..

You clearly do not understand how essential is honor to community, and how with the breakdown of honor every community is endangered... Look at the Poem of Rath... The wrath was that of Achilles, and why??? He like all the other chiefs were bound by their honor to the defense of Helen, and there goes Agamemnon, treading on his honor as though it were something of little value, and for that Achilles went and wept like a child, because he was bound by his honor and could not leave even while his honor was challenged by one to whom he was bound... Look at the story of Cu Chulain, and how he was bound by his honor, but would smite people in a heart beat if they demeaned him...

Honor plays a part in all the great literature of the past... It is (and was in ancient Greece) incomprehensible that Orestes should kill his mother for the blood of his father, or that Agamemnon would be killed for the sacrifice of his own daughter, but honor demanded it, and even Athenian Homacide law sanctioned it, for no one but a relative of the murdered could bring charges... And one executed for murder was brought to the boundry line of Attica and thrown bodily over it so that dishonor might be removed from the community, for honor was alike thought as essential to the individual, the family, and the community... So even in the face of wealth tearing away at it, the idea of honor and trust have held on in society, even to the present time, though in shadow only... But; in the loss of honor is the loss of community... From the perspective of community and family, money is the root of all evil, for those inclined to take from others and make war are outlaws even in their own communities, and they prey upon others beyond the point of sensibility...

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So, has this really devolved into an argument between three people about whether or not one of them is an idiot?

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@RexDraconis111,

This is the Internet and all arguments will eventually devolve to name calling. That doesn't mean that humanity has gone down the drain, only that we take our failings onto the Internet with us.

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@RexDraconis111,

RexDraconis111 wrote:

So, has this really devolved into an argument between three people about whether or not one of them is an idiot?

I would generally concede that I am an idiot in the classic sense of the word, but that would not preclude my drawing of apporopriate conclusions from the books I have read... Thanks

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@engineer,

Oh, I know that. I was just sort of amazed at the fact that it led so quickly from discussing humanity to a school-yard name-calling session. I swear they sound like kids. And as entertaining as it all is, it's a little sad.

1 Reply

Has Humanity, as a whole, gone down the drain?

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