7
   

Every religion proven to be based upon a foundation of lies

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 10:13 am
@reasoning logic,
I don't know, do I?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 10:17 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I can not think for you so I can not answer that! I can tell you that I Found Socrates to be very interesting!
I found Socrates apology to be a very good read did you?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 10:45 am
Do any of you like the series Walking with beasts?


I never seen it before, It is like Adam and Eve in the garden!


0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 10:59 am
@Setanta,
See if you like this a bit better, Smithsonian article, you know, that bastion of conservative and fundamentalist Christian thought on the mall in NW Washington D.C...

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/ancient-dna-and-neanderthals

Quote:
The Neanderthal mtDNA sequences were substantially different from modern human mtDNA (Krings et al. 1997, 1999). Researchers compared the Neanderthal to modern human and chimpanzee sequences. Most human sequences differ from each other by on average 8.0 substitutions, while the human and chimpanzee sequences differ by about 55.0 substitutions. The Neanderthal and modern human sequences differed by approximately 27.2 substitutions. Using this mtDNA information, the last common ancestor of Neanderthals and modern humans dates to approximately 550,000 to 690,000 years ago, which is about four times older than the modern human mtDNA pool. This is consistent with the idea that Neanderthals did not contribute substantially to modern human genome.


27.2 is roughly half of 55.0 or at least it was last time I looked. That is the basis for the claim you read of Neanderthal DNA being roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee and why these quotes are so easy to find.


gungasnake
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 11:01 am
Neanderthal skeleton:

http://humanorigins.si.edu/sites/default/files/images/portrait/neanderthalensis_skeleton_CC_f_p.jpg

Note the rounded ( ape-like) torso; human torsos are elongated and not rounded.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 11:03 am
@gungasnake,
Once again, the part of the thing which reads:

Quote:
Using this mtDNA information, the last common ancestor of Neanderthals and modern humans dates to approximately 550,000 to 690,000 years ago,...


is based on faulty assumptions and flawed logic.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 12:30 pm
You're hilarious--you accept part of the Smithsonian information because you think it supports your thesis, while rejecting other parts of it because it doesn't accomodate your young earth world view, which you are too dishonest to acknowledge. Leaving aside that that article also uses sources ten or more years old, it is just another example of you blowing smoke. With over three billion base pairs in human DNA, just how big a difference do you allege 28 or 55 nucleotide substitutions makes?

When you question when there might have been a common ancestor to h. sapiens and h. neanderthalensis you just demonstrate that you view scientific research as a possible tool to support you ideologically motivated argument, and to be discarded if it fails to do so. The authors of the research cited in the Smithsonian article are the authorities, not you.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 12:44 pm
@Setanta,
You challenged me to show a source for the claim of Neanderthal DNA being halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee under threat of being shown as a liar; I've now produced two such sources and yet you go on hee-hawing and oinking as if I'd done something nefarious.

Do you take stupid pills or mean/stupid pills or what exactly??
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 12:49 pm
@gungasnake,
You continue to side-step the valid criticism that you're attempting to make it appear that there is a huge distinction to be made between h. neanderthalensis and h. sapiens, when the data just isn't there. Furthermore, you continue to rely on studies which were made a decade or more ago, and you continue to ignore the sequencing of the h. neanderthalensis genome which was done just last year. You continue to speak as though you are an authority on this subject, and yet you deny patently expert evidence such as the sequencing of the h. neanderthalensis genome, and the conclusion of the researchers that contemporary h. sapiens contains from a 1% to a 4% h. neanderthalensis genetic legacy.

Do you take dishonesty pills along with your stupid pills?
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 02:16 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
This is consistent with the idea that Neanderthals did not contribute substantially to modern human genome.


I do not know evolution all that well so I was hoping that others would help me out here.

Is it possible for inter breeding of other hominoids to cause the changes in our modern human DNA?

What happens to DNA when you breed other closely related animals like tigers and lions, ponies and zebras, donkeys and horses and so on?

I do know that most of these are sterile but not all animals that are closely related become sterile when bred in this way.

My question is how far apart are some of these DNA's from the offspring?

Could this be how we evolved maybe Neanderthal and Australopithecus interbred

I don't really know what I am talking about maybe you do! Rolling Eyes
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 02:42 pm
@reasoning logic,
There are two bases for alleging that animals are different species, and one is two-part. The first is that they cannot interbreed (well, Du-uh), and the second part of that is that two animals might successfully breed, but their offspring will not be reproductively viable--they will be sterile.

The second is sexual isolation. Two members of a species will become sufficiently separated in distance over time so that they become, for all practical purposes, different species. A recent example of this was a bear which was discovered which was apparently the offspring of a mating of a grizzly and a polar bear. Unfortunately, the idiot who found the bear shot him, so we don't know if he were reproductively viable or not. If he had been, then the difference between the two species would be the product of sexual isolation. They would be reproductively viable, but would not reproduce because they do not live in the same range. With the climate warming, we may soon find out about grizzly bears and polar bears.

Based on the sequencing of the h. neanderthalensis genome which was done last year, contemporary h. sapiens whose ancestors left Africa more than 30,000 years ago do have DNA from h. neanderthalensis. What impact that has i don't think anyone can say, at least for the present. It is important to keep in mind that more than 90% of the genetic code of h. sapiens and h. neanderthalensis are identical, so that it would be difficult to say how much of that portion of our genetic make-up came from h. neanderthalensis--although it certainly wouldn't matter, since we'd have it no matter what the source.

We all have mitochondria in our cells (that's plural, the singular is mitochondrion). These organelles serve some crucial functions in our cells, acting like a power plant to produce the chemical which is used to provide energy for the cell, and are probably crucial in cell differentiation and cell death, and other crucial functions.

Genetically, mitochondria are important as markers to show the descent of animals. That's because MtDNA (the DNA of the mitochondrion) is passed on without recombination--it's a mirror of the mother's mitochondria. This is important in human genetics and the study of human pre-history because MtDNA markers can tell who were the ancestors of those who now possess it (MtDNA from the father does recombine). So, for example, there is now almost indisputable evidence that all modern humans are descended from a single woman who lived in Africa about 200,000 ybp--Mitochondrial Eve.

MtDNA has also confirmed many theses of human migration in pre-historic times which had previously questioned or even dismissed out of hand. Because of recombination, the approximate age of the source MtDNA can be reasonably inferred. This tells us, for example, that 3% of all aboriginal Americans possess ancient European MtDNA--in eastern Canada, that rises to 25% of aboriginal populations. It also tells us that Madagascar (a large island off the east coast of Africa) was indeed colonized from what we think of as Indonesia, and not from the African mainland. Africans from the mainland did end up there, but only after the Australasians from, probably, Sumatra of Java, had already colonized the island. This was first suggested by linguistic evidence in the 19th century, but many scholars dismissed because they thought it too improbable. But the evidence from MtDNA is that the oldest male MtDNA on Madagascar come from Australasian sources.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 02:47 pm
@reasoning logic,
How do you define "good read?"
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 02:56 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I thought that Plato was extremely intelligent, I was amazed at the level of thinking that was expressed over 2,000 years ago!
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 03:02 pm
@reasoning logic,
Why should 2000 years make any difference in intelligence? Plato was a Nazi.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 03:08 pm
@Setanta,
He was an intelligent Nazi if he was a Nazi. I was not aware how well people could think that long ago until I read Socrates' Apology!
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 03:11 pm
@reasoning logic,
Jesus Christ . . . we are homo sapiens sapiens, we have been homo sapiens sapiens for one hundred thousands years or more. People one hundred thousand years ago were just as intelligent as we are.

Plato admired and praised a militaristic, dictatorial slave state. That doesn't make him too fuckin' intelligent in my book.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 03:27 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Plato admired and praised a militaristic, dictatorial slave state. That doesn't make him too fuckin' intelligent in my book.


That does not seem intelligent in my book neither I was not aware of that as he is not my hero so I did not study every thing about him! I thought that his work on apology was intelligent and that is all that I was referring to!

My favorite subject has been human behavior and I find it normal for people to be very intelligent in many areas of thought but be lacking in ethics. Intelligence does not seem to have monopoly over ethical thinking!

Quote:
People one hundred thousand years ago were just as intelligent as we are.

Is this a fact?
Would you kindly provide evidence for this?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 03:35 pm
@Setanta,
Thanks for sharing.

You seem to be more informed on this subject than me! Do you think that this is a credible source of info?


http://www.ecotao.com/holism/hu_sap.htm
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 05:28 pm
For as nearly as i can tell, yes, it provides a cautious explication of the contemporary state of knowledge of the subject.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Wed 28 Sep, 2011 08:22 pm
@reasoning logic,
RL, I agree: "Intelligence does not seem to have [a] monopoly over ethical thinking!"
I don't think intelligence is completely irrelevant to the development of ethical sensitivity, but the emotional capacity for compassion is far more central than is logical ability
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 12/25/2024 at 12:18:09