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Miss USA delegates on evolution in schools

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 06:59 am
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
You know I'm beginning to tire of the Evolution/Creation debate mostly because it really ain't no hair off of gawd's ass what you or I believe. It really only matters what we practice and the real consequence of the debate is really the benefit of that practice.

To teach creationism is to practice fraud, though. So even by your criteria, this is a necessary conflict to argue out.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 07:27 am
@Thomas,
American Politics has become an accepted practice of fraud. Public education has become a political debate--by syllogism then, hasn't fraud become a practice of education?

To a great extent though, given enough time science will win over reactionary fundamentalism--stupidity ultimately is a capital crime and the sentence will have no appeal.

As an American I would hope that this would be an American victory, but I'm willing to accede to a painful discovery over American ignorance.

Rap
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 07:36 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
AsI said, it is MERELY my opinion that some things should be left up to the parents as to whether they want their child taught that or not. I don't have anything else to about the issue.

Why? Why is it your opinion that parents should have the option to defraud their children by having them taught creationism? Why is it your opinion that schools should be at those parents' mercy when all teachers do is tell the truth?


What? And open myself up to being called deluded, irrational, etc? Forget it. Been there with you and done that.
JTT
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 08:57 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
What? And open myself up to being called deluded, irrational, etc?


Then that only leaves you to do personal battle with you and your beliefs, Arella. If they can't stand up to scrutiny, of what use are they? If you have to keep making excuses to support those beliefs, then of what use are the beliefs?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 09:14 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
What? And open myself up to being called deluded, irrational, etc?


Then that only leaves you to do personal battle with you and your beliefs, Arella. If they can't stand up to scrutiny, of what use are they? If you have to keep making excuses to support those beliefs, then of what use are the beliefs?


Well, it seems pretty illogical to me to expect that if someone believes I am deluded that they would actually give any weight to what I have to say.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 09:26 am
@Arella Mae,
Don't be too hard on yourself, Arella. There are many who are deluded.

That's the beauty of blind faith - it permits and encourages delusion. That's why it's best kept behind closed lips and church doors.

Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 09:35 am
@JTT,
CLICK! GO INSULT SOMEONE ELSE!
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  4  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 10:46 am
@Arella Mae,
An opinion should be based on reason and should be supported by truth, or at least a good argument. A belief must be about blind faith and no one is questioning your faith.
It is irrational to stare the scientific facts in the face and deny it. Or to form an opinion when you refuse to learn what it is you are denying.


Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 10:59 am
@Ceili,
Yes I am sooo irrational! I am also soooooooooooooooo sick of people treating me differently because I don't believe like they do! Truly, you all have gotten into such robotic answers you can't even see how your calling people deluded, irrational, etc. HURTS THEM! All you seem to care about is being PC and right when you can't even admit you can't know you are right about what you believe anymore than I can. Where is this so called tolerance for people being different.

I guess that only works when it is the non-believer wanting the tolerance. Seriously, I'm sick enough of this to vomit.

I hope your children do not grow up to be Christians and learn that it's okay to demean someone because they are different than you.

I may not be as intelligent or as educated as some of you but I haven't lost my feelings. I will never think it's okay to call people names and make them feel less than because I must be so much better than they are!

How would you like it if your child was called names all the time? Would you tell them oh but if you are irrational then you are irrational or well, it's your fault for being deluded?

Makes me sick.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 01:02 pm
@Arella Mae,
Agree with you that sometimes the attitude might be pushy and harsh but on the other hand donĀ“t you think coherence is something we are entitled to demand from people living in a society ? I mean why not take your kids out of school completely instead and teach them something that has nothing to do with scientific knowledge in turn ? that would make sense...halfway is not acceptable as I see it...one cannot be rational just up to where we find it convenient...that is like taking a contract for awhile to derail it later on...
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 01:16 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Why should "I" have to take my kids out of school because I disagree with you (generic) on what you think kids should be taught? Why don't you take "yours" out of school? When does it stop? I always hear how Christians force stuff down people's throats and quite honestly the only thing being forced is "I" don't agree with how "you" think so, of course, I am deluded!

I am sorry but I find it all so hypocritical. I am NOT saying this in specific regard to you. But seriously, I hear about how non-believers think Christians think they are so superior and hmmmmmmmmmmm, I don't call anyone deluded!

I am sorry. But this namecalling and anyone thinking they are better than anyone else because they think differently is PURE CRAP!

If a person cannot have a civil discussion without insulting then I don't want to be part of that discussion. If someone thinks I am deluded then they have already made up their mind about "me" and aren't going to listen to my side so why waste my time?

If people have so little respect for another human being they have to demean them in their conversation, seriously, THEY CAN KISS MY GRITS! I am tired of it.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 01:21 pm
@Arella Mae,
"If people have so little respect for another human being they have to demean them in their conversation"...

this describes humanity from the beginning of time. no matter where one asserts that beginning to be...
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 02:03 pm
@Rockhead,
And nothing ever changes if someone isn't willing to change. Just because it has happened since the dawn of time that doesn't make it right.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 02:07 pm
@Arella Mae,
and you and your grits are entitled to be angry about whatever you wish to be angry about.

no argument from this quarter.

we here on the prairie try to focus our energies on things we might have a chance at changing...
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 02:23 pm
I didn't call you any names. I merely said, and I used your word, that having an scientific opinion based on a religious belief is irrational. What is PC about Science? Plenty of religions understand and agree with Evolution, yours doesn't and plenty of people are curious as to why. Why should school deny a child a good education based on your beliefs, or anyones? There has to be a better reason than getting your feeling hurt, or stomping your feet and having a meltdown anytime someone questions your beliefs. See AR you don't have an opinion, because it really isn't an opinion it's a belief.
You don't believe in Evolution. Your opinion is useless if you haven't researched all the information.
With a belief you can shut the door on truth and believe anything you want, but again, an opinion like a theory should be based on reasoning out information, distilling it until the facts are apparent. A belief cares not for fact. An opinion should be all about provable facts. See the difference.
So go ahead, believe what you want, but don't suffer the little children with the fairy tales you'd rather them believe. It's not fair to the generations that follow them, that are no doubt, trying to evolve.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 02:32 pm
@Rockhead,
So I should just accept it because I can't change it? I am not equating my situation to what I am about to say (about kids) and I want that made clear.

How many kids have commited suicide because they were bullied because there was something different about them? How many kids have taken guns to school and blown away everyone they could because they were made to feel less than because they were different. I'm an adult and I can handle it. I'm not going to commit suicide or go postal but I am also NOT going stand there and let a bus hit me either.

I try to treat people the way I want to be treated. I've done a lot of changing since coming to A2K and most of that was done because people had a problem with me about some issues. I changed those things because I do try to respect the feelings of others. I have totally lost it a few times and have had to ashamedly apologize but I grew from those experiences.

Not everyone calls me deluded or lacking intelligence or even evil because I don't think evolution should be taught in schools. There are some people that totally disagree with nearly about everything I believe in or my opinion but yet are some of the most respectful and compassionate people I have met. I find it really amazing that they don't judge me for those differences while others do.

I am not deluded. I am not irrational and I am certainly not evil. What does it say about a person that thinks it is okay to call others names and try to make them feel less than because they are different?

Any one of you would have a bloody fit if someone were to do that to your child and I think everyone knows that is true.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 02:37 pm
@Ceili,
I don't think you even see how you insult believers with what you post. You THINK you are right and I AM WRONG. My opinion is useless if I haven't researched all the information? With a belief I can shut the door............. should be based on reasoning? I get upset for someone calling me deluded and it's a meltdown? Sometimes you don't have to call people names to make them feel like crap.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 03:37 pm
@Arella Mae,
You still fail to see the elephant in the room Arella.
I'm sorry your feelings got hurt, but this thread has hurt my intelligence...
What else do you call sticking your fingers in your ears and holding your breath till the big nasty pc science police go away?
Look Arella, I'm trying desperately hard no to talk religion here. I'm not questioning your beliefs. I'm telling you that you can't choose not to believe a fact cause you don't like it. It is what it is. The sky turns black at night, not because of satan, but because the other side of the planet blocks the sun's rays. You can choose to believe it will always be sunny, buy the facts are, somedays the sky will be blue and other days it will be grey and sometimes it's dappled with pink.
See a belief in something can be based on fantasy. I'm not going to tell a psychitzophrenic he's not having conversations with god, or martians. In his mind he believes he is but the facts are, in the medical or psychiatric or the world in general, he's suffering from a chemical imbalance.
I could tell you that it is my belief that Wayne Newton is the best singer in the world. I'd be wrong, but I'm allowed to believe what ever I want. I can believe tomorrow is Sunday, I'd be wrong. If it were my opinion it was sunday, I'd better be able to back it up with a flow chart or two.
Beliefs don't need verification, facts do, opinions should.
See..
It is my opinion you believe evolution theory is incorrect based on:
a.) your own words,
b.) the utter lack or ability to verify your opinion with anything other than childish foot stomping and the accusations of hurt feelings, much like a petulant child who doesn't get their way. An argument only gets personal if you let it.
c.) non-universal christian doctrine

Perhaps I've missed the more thoughtful reasons you "disagree" with evolution and want to deny children a full educational experience. I'd be interested in hearing them.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 03:49 pm
@Ceili,
Let's just let it go.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 03:54 pm
I get it Arella.. When you can't stand the heat you tell the rest of us to get the hell out of the kitchen.
Alrighty then. Just please don't get yourself elected on a school board anywhere.. K.
And in the future, instead of diving headlong into a thread you are incapable of understanding or unwilling to discuss, why not turn the other cheek. Don't bother your pretty little head none...
0 Replies
 
 

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