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Miss USA delegates on evolution in schools

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:10 pm
If you are all going to poke fun at me and make jokes then I'll just bow out of this conversation.

Evolution is NOT A PROVEN fact. History is. Math can be proven, etc.

Evolution, to most Christians, is contrary to their beliefs. Why should a child HAVE to be taught that if it is not a proven fact and is in conflict with their beliefs? You don't have to agree with me but I don't see where you have to make fun of my opinion either.

I doubt many of you would want creationism taught to your child? Isn't that something that should be your choice?
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:12 pm
@raprap,
Quote:
Math has been used to model evolutionary processes....)


Correct. And when it has, it has yielded one total disproof after another, including things like the Haldane dilemma which indicate that quadrillions of years would be needed for evolution to produce anything like our living world even if that were possible which it isn't, and the kinds of probabilistic statements which Fred Hoyle has made.

Quote:
"The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a
number with 40,000 noughts after it... It is big enough to bury Darwin and
the whole theory of Evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this
planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random,
they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence."

Sir Fred Hoyle
Nature, Nov 12, 1981, p. 148
sozobe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:15 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
Evolution is NOT A PROVEN fact.


It's every bit as proven as the effectiveness of antibiotics....

Quote:
History is.


... and evolution is even more "proven"/ scientific than history. History is far more subject to change with new information or changed interpretations of existing information. Evolution can be tested and replicated.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:20 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Imagine that hes on a curriculum asdvisory committee of his local board.


Leading America to its true destiny.
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:22 pm
@gungasnake,
A little math correction

ganja wrote:
What they did, over a period of about twenty years, involved fruit flies which breed new generations every few days. Twenty years worth of that is equal to tens of thousands of generations of any normal animal, i.e. enough for any possibility of macroevolution to be observed without requiring millions of years.


20 years*365.25 da/yr=7305 da.

A few days per generation is (I'll be generous) 2 da/generation

7305 da*gen/2 da=3652.5 generations

That's a lot less than tens of thousands of generations.

In human terms (30 years per generation) that's about 100,000 years. 10^5 years is a blink of an eye by any geological scale--although 10^5 years ago there was another human species inhabiting this planet. They are now considered extinct.

Rap
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:23 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

... and evolution is even more "proven"/ scientific than history. History is far more subject to change with new information or changed interpretations of existing information. Evolution can be tested and replicated.


Well, I've a bit different opinion about history being scientific Wink

However, evolution certainly is part of what is know as auxiliary sciences of history.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:24 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
I doubt many of you would want creationism taught to your child? Isn't that something that should be your choice?


I have sent all my children to public schools here in the United States. I have never had any choice. It has been illegal to teach creationism in U.S. public schools since at least 1988.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:26 pm
@wandeljw,
It's illegal to teach creationism but evolution should be taught whether the parents approve or not?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:27 pm
@wandeljw,
How many years was creationism taught in US schools, even after Scopes?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:29 pm
@Arella Mae,
In public schools at the primary and secondary levels, it is best to teach curriculum that has been recommended by experts in each field.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:30 pm
@wandeljw,
Arella Mae wrote:
I doubt many of you would want creationism taught to your child? Isn't that something that should be your choice?


I've the school reports of my grandmother, from 1908 until 1912, Catholic school, run by nuns: she only got good marks in 'evolution' (which is taught in biology here).

Like you said, creationism is a topic of belief - it can be taught in Sunday schools at churches ....
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:33 pm
My opinion is just that, my opinion. None of you have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with any of you. I can certainly agree to civilly disagree.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:38 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

How many years was creationism taught in US schools, even after Scopes?


What do you mean by even after Scopes? Do you realize that Scopes lost his case?
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:40 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
It's illegal to teach creationism but evolution should be taught whether the parents approve or not?


It's just common sense, Arella. You teach math but not voodoo.

You teach science, but you only read fairy tales.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:42 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

I know it is not a popular stance to take but yes, when it comes to evolution and sex education, I think that needs to be the parents' choice as to whether the school can teach that to their child or not.

Fair enough.

But let me follow up with this... would you be willing to expand that viewpoint to say that it should be a parents choice to teach anything to their child?

For example, should parents have the right to pick and choose whatever they want their child to learn? What if a parent believe that American History was wrong and they didn't want their child to learn any of it, would that be ok?

Remember, evolution is a standard fully accepted part of scientific knowledge. It's not challenged by any other scientific theories in biology and within the realm of science it's considered a proven fact and treated as such just as much as any other fact of science. Conversely, American History is far more subjective and open to misrepresentation and error.

If you want to make the argument that parents should restrict their children from one bit of knowledge then it follows that they should be able to restrict them from any bits of knowledge.
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:47 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

Evolution is NOT A PROVEN fact.

But Evolution is a proven scientific fact.

You can argue that it's not an absolute fact at a philosophical level (because nothing can be an absolute fact at a philosophical level), and you would be right. But it is definitely a fact within the realm of science.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:49 pm
I wonder if AM considers the concept of gravity to be an optional subject for education. After all, it's just a theory . . .
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:51 pm
@gungasnake,
Longer than ID expects using Haldane's corrected model assumptions

Haldane's non Dilemma part 1

Haldane's non Dilemma part 2

Rap
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:51 pm
@wandeljw,
Scopes was found guilty, but the verdict was overturned on a technicality and he was never brought back to trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2011 02:55 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
In public schools at the primary and secondary levels, it is best to teach curriculum that has been recommended by experts in each field.


Not when the "experts" are basically brainwashed ideologues.
 

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