0
   

Palestinian Solidarity Campaign disrupts Israeli Concert. Yeah!!!

 
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:06 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Foofie wrote:

[You've sold me. Jews should emigrate somewhere else and make that land its Zionist State. Any suggestions? Preferably a temperate climate, since the Czar was "breeding" my ancestors (a la raping Cossacks) for a colder clime.

Are you offering any place in particular? Or, should they go to the moon?


No - you are merely denying the obvious and practical alternatives. Jews in Israel should make peace with their neighbors in practical stages - starting by granting full political rights to the Palestinian residents of the West Bank territory controlled by Israel, and declaring their intention of creating a state that aspires to protect the rights and lives of all of its citizens equally - with the ultimate goal of a single state for all of Palestine. It may seem like a foolish impossibility to you now, but so did peace and tolerance seem impossible to the Former Unionist Stormont government in Northern Ireland.


Please stop comparing Israelis to Irish. The Irish have a grand tradition of working in civil service. The Jews have a tradition of growing businesses, until a Christian conglomerate buys the business.

The one common denominator can be seen in any public library, where the number of Irish authors and Jewish authors seem to be greater than many another ethnicity. Jews and Irish both value literacy.

You might be insulting the Presbyterian Northern Irish, since you seem to be comparing them to Palestineans.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:11 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Jews represent, in my opinion, a group that are just too good competitors for many people's level of comfort. As I recently read in a book about the Nazi era, an older German from the WWII era confided to the author that in pre-Nazi Germany, the Jews "owned everything; the department stores, the factories; it just couldn't go on." This was the rationalization for the Holocaust. It "freed" the Germans from the yoke of Jewish success.


So you convict the entire Western World for these actions? I believe your implication that Jews are, always and everywhere, "too good competitors" for the comfort of others, both laughably inaccurate, and hateful in its content. I suppose one could, today in Europe, make the same observation about Germans, and in Asia about the Chinese (I was in Beijing and Shanghai a few weeks ago and - apart from the smog in Beijing - their achievements have been spectacular). Then there is the case of Singapore, where an amalgum of Malay, Hindi and Chinese people have created an extraordinary (but monotonous) high achievement super state. All of these facts suggest that what you cite arised far more from the circumstances of the people than from their genes. (I also recall in college reading old newspaper files from the late 19th century, decrying the influx of "uneducated uneducatable peasants from Central Europe" - Ashkenazi Jews from Poland and Russia - into this country. The author's grandchildren likely had a hard time competing with their grandchildren - though his self serving blindness and conceit was no different from yours.)
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:11 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
My point being that the world views Irish as different from how the world views Jews.


Stop making these grand pronouncements, Foofie, that serve only to display your own ignorance and sweeping racism.

The Irish were treated to a great deal of racism from "Americans" just as every other new ethnicity has.


The Irish were treated to more prejudice than any white ethnicity. There were signs on factories that Irish Need Not Apply. They lived in the worst slums. There saving grace was their faith, and their loyalty to their church.

That aside, the western world still perceives Jews as inherently different. It is just an intractable belief. Perhaps, the Jewish culture does make Jews behave differently? Regardless, my point stands.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:18 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Foofie wrote:

Jews represent, in my opinion, a group that are just too good competitors for many people's level of comfort. As I recently read in a book about the Nazi era, an older German from the WWII era confided to the author that in pre-Nazi Germany, the Jews "owned everything; the department stores, the factories; it just couldn't go on." This was the rationalization for the Holocaust. It "freed" the Germans from the yoke of Jewish success.


So you convict the entire Western World for these actions? I believe your implication that Jews are, always and everywhere, "too good competitors" for the comfort of others, both laughably inaccurate, and hateful in its content. I suppose one could, today in Europe, make the same observation about Germans, and in Asia about the Chinese (I was in Beijing and Shanghai a few weeks ago and - apart from the smog in Beijing - their achievements have been spectacular). Then there is the case of Singapore, where an amalgum of malay, Hindi and Chinese people have created an extraordinary (but monotonous) high achievement super state. All of these facts suggest that what you cite arised far more from the circumstances of the people than from their genes. (I also recall in college reading old newspaper files from the late 19th century, decrying the influx of "uneducated uneducatable peasants from Central Europe" - Ashkenazi Jews from Poland and Russia - into this country. The author's grandchildren likely had a hard time competing with their grandchildren - though his self serving blindness and conceit was no different from yours.)


Your vacation journal is interesting, but it does not negate the veracity of the Weimar Republic Germans' perceptions about Jews.

My only hope is that Jewish couples start having ten children each. Oddly, I've never seen an ugly Jewish toddler? Many are really good looking.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:26 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
That aside, the western world still perceives Jews as inherently different. It is just an intractable belief.


The western world, the whole world still perceives Jews as inherently different. That same group views Muslims, and Ethiopians and Koreans and Japanese and Canadians and Australians and Somoans and ... as inherently different.

Why? I'll let you in on a little known secret, Foofie. They are all inherently different. I'm different in many ways to my Jewish friends but they are not things that I notice anymore than than I notice the differences between me and my Japanese friends or my Lebanese friends.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:29 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

And, now you blame all Jews for the excesses of a paramilitary organization.
No I don't, but I do see it as a reason why many Palestinians fled their homes.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:33 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I do not believe you are correct in this assertion. Available data suggests the Israeli Arabs enjoy a considerably better average standard of living than their counterparts in the West Bank and Gaza, and in some respects they enjoy the civic services of a better functioning and more representative government.


My late wife spent a year working in Israel, she knew a lot of Israeli Arabs. They were subject to daily harrassment by the security forces. Admittedly, they did not have it as bad as those in the occupied territories, but still not 'living comfortably,' by any stretch of the imagination.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 12:08 pm
@Foofie,
No, you snide son-of-a-bitch, they should behave like civilized people wherever they now live, and stop acting like Nazis in Israel.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 12:12 pm
@Setanta,
Odd that Setanta doesn't suggest a chunk of his "homeland". After all, who is a bigger supporter than the US.

Somehow, I don't know why, ... , I have this niggling feeling that the big plus for the US is strategic rather than altruistic.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 12:14 pm
@JTT,
Don't forget the religious nut jobs.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 12:21 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Don't forget the religious nut jobs.


Are there some of those in the US, Izzy?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 12:23 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
You've sold me. Jews should emigrate somewhere else and make that land its Zionist State. Any suggestions? Preferably a temperate climate, since the Czar was "breeding" my ancestors (a la raping Cossacks) for a colder clime.

Are you offering any place in particular? Or, should they go to the moon?


Didn't Nimh have a thread on other, earlier suggestions? here? Abuzz?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 12:40 pm
@JTT,
I heard tell there may be a couple or so.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 12:57 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Mind you, anti-Semitism is not just pogroms or holocausts. It is also the clannishness one finds in Gentiles.

Oy vey! Talk about projection.

Which came first, Foofie's clannishness, or the world's clannishness?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:00 pm
@InfraBlue,
Gentile is as clannish a word as emmet.

Emmets don't come from this place, they come from everywhere else.
http://www.visitcornwall.com/xsdbimgs/Cornwall%20Map%20basic(1).jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:03 pm
@izzythepush,
Just wanted to book our next year's holiday there ... Embarrassed

Wink
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:09 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
The Haganah was not the official State of Israel military. You are quoting facts during the British Mandate.
The fact that the Haganah was not the official state of Israel military does not negate the fact that the Zionists perpetrated ethnic cleansing at the time of the end of the British Mandate.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:21 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
It is very lovely, I've been loads of times, despite being an emmet.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:28 pm
@izzythepush,
No wonder that you like it: I've discussed your arrival already more than 45 years ago ... Wink
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:35 pm
@georgeob1,
The comparison between the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the Protestant/Catholic conflict in Northern Ireland has very limited application.

No matter how violent and extreme the clash between The IRA and The Unionists was, it was not existential.

If the Protestants had desired to and been successful in driving the Catholics from Northern Ireland, they would have made their way into Ireland, or even the UK where they would have been more than free to practice their religion and preserve their culture. I've no doubt that many of them had family ties to the North that dated far back, and that it would have been a hardship for them to leave, but they would not have lost a nation or have been cast into a region where they were not welcome.

Palestinians driven from Israel have Palestine, as the Catholics had Ireland. For the Jews there is only Israel.

This is not to minimize the impact of being forced from one's home, but to emphasize the stakes for Israelis.

The goal of Catholics was not to overrun Northern Ireland and effectively render it a Cathlolic region, but this is the goal of the Palestinians as respects The Right of Return.

You seem to think there is not much that Israelis have to lose if they accept a position as a minority within a Greater Palestine, but when has a Jewish minority ever felt completely secure, and more times than not, they have been a target. Why should they ever trust Palestinan Muslims to honor and protect their rights?

 

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