Palestinian Solidarity Campaign disrupts Israeli Concert. Yeah!!!

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Foofie wrote:
This includes the fact, in my opinion, that three other monotheistic faiths (Islam, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy) still accepts, through tacit approval, an anti-Semitism that permeates its popular culture.

This is typical Foofie drivel. Leaving aside the failure of subject/verb agreement, one wonders if this is fact or Foofie's opinion. However, of course, since it hasn't been demonstrated, it can't be fact.

Oh stop your 21st century rhetoric. It was during the 20th century that I heard more than one "good Catholic" say, that if it's one thing the Nazis did that was good was get rid of the Jews. Why can you not admit that it is declasse today to be overtly anti-Semitic, only covertly anti-Semitic?

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@Foofie,

Quote:

The rallying cry should be: How can we assimilate the Jews, if they continue to have their own nation?

Odd that you should mention that, Foofie, because nowhere is that such a strong feeling as in the US. There the demand is always, "why don't these damn foreigners learn English, why don't they leap into the American melting pot".

But notice how much it bothers these same people when the makeup of the melting pot seems to shift away from their own narrow view of what it is that makes an American.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Squatters (aka, Palestineans) moved into Israel, and decided to do an imitation of a people.

You've just described the US of A.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Yeah, it's the world that has the problem, not Foofie, and the world is out to get him.

This mental disorder makes up much of the psychological basis of Zionist nationalists, and is the basis for their discriminatory and oppressive behavior towards the Palestinians.

Unfortunately, the US is their foremost enabler in the Zionists' dysfunctional relationship with the world.

No. The world is not out to get me. However, the western world's Gentiles cannot eliminate the anti-Semitism that is intractable in its popular culture. While today it is not putting Jews in ovens, let's just see if that idea is not offered as a solution, if there is real starvation, a la the wheelbarrow of Weimar Republic notes to buy a loaf of bread.

I would not expect you to agree to the degree of anti-Semitism that exists in the popular Gentile culture. That may be why so many Jews wind up in academia, since there is the belief that more educated Gentiles have somehow overcome some degree of the culture's intractable anti-Semitism.

Mind you, anti-Semitism is not just pogroms or holocausts. It is also the clannishness one finds in Gentiles. So, it might be nice if Jews have the continued choice of living an existence with Gentiles or without them. Just like people in the other nations of the world can choose to live in an ethnocentric world, or not. You know, like the clannish British, Irish, Spanish, French, Italians, etc., etc. Or, have I only met clannish people in my life? If so, then it is just my opinion, and I must be wrong. There must not be anything called clannishness.

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@InfraBlue,

The Haganah was not the official State of Israel military. You are quoting facts during the British Mandate.

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It is a lie that there was never a Palestinian people. There was a Palestine, known and acknowledged more than 2000 years ago, when the civilized world had never heard of the Jews. Read your Herodotus. The existence of a Jewish state in 1934 would not have saved any lives, no more will it do so today. In fact, the rapacious militarism and territorial conquest of the governments of Israel are a far greater danger to the people of that nation than idiotic zionist fairy tales such as Foofie loves to retail.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/maps/ZionistPalestine1919.gif

This map is the Zionist view of what lands they should control, and as presented to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919. Does Foofie allege that the Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese and Egyptian people do not and never have existed? Are Zionists entitled to overrun and take land based on such monumentally idiotic contentions as Foofie is attempting to peddle here?

(Should anyone wish to claim that this is just anti-semitic propaganda, i would point out that the source for this map is The Jewish Virtual Library, which describes itself as "A division of the American-Israeli cooperative enterprise." Source here)

The Zionists have had a plan for a very long time to run people off their land for the benefit of their loony, and imperialistic world view. I consider militaristic, imperialistic Zionists to be no different than Nazis.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

There must not be anything called clannishness.

You live smack dab in the middle of one, and it could easily be argued, that it is the most clannish of all.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:

You are incorrect in your history. The Israelis told them (with megaphones) to stay. Those Arabs that stayed are living comfortably in Israel today.

We're going to have to agree to differ on that. Those Arab Israelis living in Israel today could hardly be classed as 'living comfortably.'

I do not believe you are correct in this assertion. Available data suggests the Israeli Arabs enjoy a considerably better average standard of living than their counterparts in the West Bank and Gaza, and in some respects they enjoy the civic services of a better functioning and more representative government.

Perhaps you interpret the phrase "living comfortably" to refer to aspects other than the economic component of their lives. However, it is simply a fact that these citizens of Israel enjoy most (not all) of the civil rights of other citizens of Israel and that they have chosen to remain there now for two generations.

In short the facts are not with you here. Your enthusiasm for the plight of Palestinian Arabs appears to overcome your knowledge of both the facts of the situation and the role of your own country in creating it.

Interestiungly here are about 1.6 million non Jewish citizens of Israel, comprising about 21% of the Israeli population. The end of Jewish immigration from the former Soviet Empire has slowed the growth of the Jewish population of Israel to about 1.7%/year while, owing to higher fertility, the non Jewish population of Israel is growing at about 2.6%/year. (CIA world factbook).

The situations in the West Bank & Gaza are profoundly different. The West bank population includes about 1.7 million Arabs & others, and about 350 thousand resident Israeli settlers (not including some 250 thousant Jewish settlers in the annexed parts of East Jerusalem). Under the Oslo Accords, Israel directly controls about 79% of the West Bank territory and with it about 45% of the Arab population who have no political rights in Israel. The remaining 55% of the Arab population of the West Bank reside in the remaining 17% of the territory - mostly non-contiguous urban areas around Palestinian cities, and are governed by the Palestinian Authority. The Gaza region (governed by Hamas) has a population of about 1.6 million , bringing the Arab total for the former British Palestinian mandate to about 4.9 million - not much less than the 5.8 million Jewish population of Israel.

My point here is that, self-serving rhetoric aside, there is no reason to believe that a single state solution for this naturally connected region is either impossible or significantly worse than the present situation. Moreover it offers the hope of eventual peace and relative harmony, while the present one certainly does not. Setanta's comments about the history (long and short term) of the region are entirely accurate. Here the 350 year conflict in Northern Ireland is a reminder that these grotesque divides can last a very long time - and the similarity of the Northern Ireland divide to the situation in Palestine is indeed striking.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
The rallying cry should be: How can we assimilate the Jews, if they continue to have their own nation?

Odd that you should mention that, Foofie, because nowhere is that such a strong feeling as in the US. There the demand is always, "why don't these damn foreigners learn English, why don't they leap into the American melting pot".

But notice how much it bothers these same people when the makeup of the melting pot seems to shift away from their own narrow view of what it is that makes an American.

Why is it odd? Since Jews are basically Eastern European, except for a few Jews of German descent, or some Sephardim (of Syrian descent usually), Jews, if they converted, would be quite accepted in any Catholic parish, or Protestant congregation. It is just that as Jews they are autonomous, and therefore the non-Jewish white world is not gaining all the benefits from their perceived abilities, be they culturally based, or gene-pool based.

Jews represent, in my opinion, a group that are just too good competitors for many people's level of comfort. As I recently read in a book about the Nazi era, an older German from the WWII era confided to the author that in pre-Nazi Germany, the Jews "owned everything; the department stores, the factories; it just couldn't go on." This was the rationalization for the Holocaust. It "freed" the Germans from the yoke of Jewish success.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
Squatters (aka, Palestineans) moved into Israel, and decided to do an imitation of a people.

You've just described the US of A.

But the Native Americans did not have the weapon systems of the Israelis. Interesting analogy anyway, since the early colonists did see themselves as a Protestant version of the Israelites, since they had an exodus from Europe, due to the persecution of their faith.

So, the Native Americans today, might have an annual pow-wow, but are technically Christians. Perhaps, the Palestineans should convert to Judaism. If it was good enough for the Native Americans to convert, why shouldn't the Palestineans? Just change the timing of the circumcision.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

The Haganah was not the official State of Israel military.

It was a Jewish paramilitary organisation. You can't wash your hands by changing uniforms. Also, your casual racism towards the Palestinians, by deliberately misspelling their name, has not gone unnoticed.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

It is a lie that there was never a Palestinian people. There was a Palestine, known and acknowledged more than 2000 years ago, when the civilized world had never heard of the Jews. Read your Herodotus. The existence of a Jewish state in 1934 would not have saved any lives, no more will it do so today. In fact, the rapacious militarism and territorial conquest of the governments of Israel are a far greater danger to the people of that nation than idiotic zionist fairy tales such as Foofie loves to retail.

This map is the Zionist view of what lands they should control, and as presented to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919. Does Foofie allege that the Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese and Egyptian people do not and never have existed? Are Zionists entitled to overrun and take land based on such monumentally idiotic contentions as Foofie is attempting to peddle here?

(Should anyone wish to claim that this is just anti-semitic propaganda, i would point out that the source for this map is The Jewish Virtual Library, which describes itself as "A division of the American-Israeli cooperative enterprise." Source here)

The Zionists have had a plan for a very long time to run people off their land for the benefit of their loony, and imperialistic world view. I consider militaristic, imperialistic Zionists to be no different than Nazis.

You've sold me. Jews should emigrate somewhere else and make that land its Zionist State. Any suggestions? Preferably a temperate climate, since the Czar was "breeding" my ancestors (a la raping Cossacks) for a colder clime.

Are you offering any place in particular? Or, should they go to the moon?

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Jews represent, in my opinion, a group that are just too good competitors for many people's level of comfort.

Of what use is it to simply buy into the stupidity of a few and use it as an argument to do to another people what you feel HAS been done to the Jews. I don't believe that there a majority feels what you have here described. I don't even think that the majority of Germans felt that way.

Can people be duped, be cowed into not speaking out? Of course. You only have to look to yourself and Americans at large for that. The US has committed the same genocidal actions against many different peoples as the Nazis did with Jews, Romas, ... , and by and large, there has been not much more than a huge collective "meh".

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
There must not be anything called clannishness.

You live smack dab in the middle of one, and it could easily be argued, that it is the most clannish of all.

Not anymore. In the 1950's one-quarter of NYC was Jewish (out of eight million). Today, it is around 800,000 (ten percent). But, with the large immigration from Asia, Eastern Europe, Mexico, etc., clannishness is quite alive without Jews, in my opinion. Also, back in the 1950's one-third of NYC was Irish (Irish-American or Irish). That's when New York's Finest (aka, NY Police) were six feet tall with chiseled features. Those were the days when New York had some panache. There are Irish today in New York; however, they are not the force to contend with, that they once were. They did make the city run smoothly, in my opinion.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

[You've sold me. Jews should emigrate somewhere else and make that land its Zionist State. Any suggestions? Preferably a temperate climate, since the Czar was "breeding" my ancestors (a la raping Cossacks) for a colder clime.

Are you offering any place in particular? Or, should they go to the moon?

No - you are merely denying the obvious and practical alternatives. Jews in Israel should make peace with their neighbors in practical stages - starting by granting full political rights to the Palestinian residents of the West Bank territory controlled by Israel, and declaring their intention of creating a state that aspires to protect the rights and lives of all of its citizens equally - with the ultimate goal of a single state for all of Palestine. It may seem like a foolish impossibility to you now, but so did peace and tolerance seem impossible to the Former Unionist Stormont government in Northern Ireland.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

...Here the 350 year conflict in Northern Ireland is a reminder that these grotesque divides can last a very long time - and the similarity of the Northern Ireland divide to the situation in Palestine is indeed striking.

When did the British want to exterminate ALL Irish? When did they want to make Dublin free of Irish Catholics? Never!

You are adding apples to oranges. Plus, the Irish did have the U.S. to come to during the "famine." Jews were turned away prior to the Holocaust. My point being that the world views Irish as different from how the world views Jews. Like it or not, being Christian has some merits, beyond going to heaven.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

It may seem like a foolish impossibility to you know, but so did peace and tolerance seem impossible to the Former Unionist Stormont government in Northern Ireland.

he says, as Iraq and Afghanistan lay in ruins.

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@Setanta,

setanta wrote:

It is a lie that there was never a Palestinian people. There was a Palestine, known and acknowledged more than 2000 years ago, when the civilized world had never heard of the Jews...

And which civilized world might this be? And did the Jews...who apparently from what you wrote above were not civilized...know about these so called civilized persons?

By the way Setanta, why the hell are you speaking of the Jews as if they were uncivilized? Making a statement such as that shows your true colors...not that you hadn't already shown them countless times and not just in this thread.

Moving to your map, it's a map and nothing more. It doesn't show that the persons today claiming to be Palestinians are indeed the persons that resided there. Since the map is clearly lableled as The Palestine claimed by WZO in 1918" that would say that the Israelis are the true Palestinians.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:

The Haganah was not the official State of Israel military.

It was a Jewish paramilitary organisation. You can't wash your hands by changing uniforms. Also, your casual racism towards the Palestinians, by deliberately misspelling their name, has not gone unnoticed.

You might be reflecting the same mentality as those Christians that have labelled Jews as "Christ Killers" for the last two millenia. The fact that it was the high priests that said let Barabus go meant nothing to Gentile Christians. ALL JEWS WERE CHRIST KILLERS. And, now you blame all Jews for the excesses of a paramilitary organization.

You are only proving my claim that the average Gentile does not know how deep his/her anti-Semitism goes.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

My point being that the world views Irish as different from how the world views Jews.

Stop making these grand pronouncements, Foofie, that serve only to display your own ignorance and sweeping racism.

The Irish were treated to a great deal of racism from "Americans" just as every other new ethnicity has.

1 Reply

Palestinian Solidarity Campaign disrupts Israeli Concert. Yeah!!!

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