Palestinian Solidarity Campaign disrupts Israeli Concert. Yeah!!!

Jews do indeed have the reputations of Fagin and Shylock to "live down" (but even here as already noted these fictional characters were not without other, better himan qualities. They also have those of Maimonides, Mendelsshon, Einstein and many, many others.

The same is true of other peoples - The Germans have Wilhelm I and Hitler; the French Robspierre and Sartre, and the Irish Teddy Kennedy.

First, the term Goyisha kopf means "Gentile Head"; however, at the present time it is used by Jews not to imply "stupid," but to imply that the Gentile world will have the same set of "facts," but come to a different conclusion than many a Jew (since Jews look at the world from the (disad)vantage point of being a minority, other than in Israel, and having a history of persecution and genocide perpetrated on them.

Now, admittedly in the early 20th century, when Jews and non-Jews lived together in the Lower East Side, or those in villages in Europe, did at times look upon many a non-Jew they met as an illiterate person of superstitious and prejudiced beliefs. So, yes, then there could have been an inference of "stupidity." But, today I still hear the term used, and it just implies that the non-Jewish world will come to a different conclusion, with the same set of facts. An example might be the simple fact that many educated, liberal non-Jews think that Jews do not need a national homeland for survival, since Nazis do not have a national power base. Well, that could be the thinking of a goyisha kopf, or in effect a conclusion based on being part of the majority, where no one they know wants to exterminate Jews. Some Jews tend to sleep with one eye open, metaphorically speaking.

As long as we are discussing epithets, while many a Gentile that is an anti-Semite (a large percentage of America before WWII) will exclaim the epithet, "damn Jews," I never heard a Jew utter "damn goyim." On the contrary, Jews in the past did exclaim, "misha goyim." This only meant mixed-up goyim. Now that's not an epithet. It only means that Gentiles can come to the wrong conclusion. But "damn" never!

On to the Irish. Now, I read Studs Lonigan the Trilogy many years ago, and even today there are folks that think of the Irish in urban areas as more gregarious, and rowdy than some other ethnicities (especially during a certain holiday in the middle of March where drinking is the way to celebrate). So, I do not agree that there is no reputation to live down. Just like there are people that think that Jews still lust after money (or for that matter lust after shiksas, even though today many a Jew marries the shiksa and lives happily ever after). So, my point is that stereotypes do not end overnight. They don't even end after half a century, since Israel winning four wars does not change many a person's belief that just about all Jews are "timid."

It's really nice to discuss sociology with you. I was not a soc major, but I took a number of electives in sociology, since it just so interesting. Social history is fun too.

How about the motivation of preserving a country in a troublesome region of the world which can be a proxy for America when taking on nuclear reactors? Not quite as dramatic a requiring the continuation of a Jewish state to grease the skids for the Second Coming, but at least it's nothing so corny as admiring a brave people.

If you were truly Rex Harrison you would know what the Queens Teas are. It was in a documentary called Monarchy, which showed the daily life of the Royals.

If you ever get invited to one, remember that one should talk in a whisper, almost. Loudness is frowned upon, or laughed at.

However, Patrick Moynihan had the testosterone to speak up at the UN when they claimed Zionism is racism. He was also an excellent sociologist at City University of New York. The Irish gave New York character in the first half of the 20th century. They also built a good part of it.

Well, as long as you are getting into arcane reason for maintaining Israel from a non-Jewish perspective, I can add that Israel functions as a literal repository of Jewish genes, so the world can always avail itself of some Jewish Israeli scientist to assist in some project. Meaning, the world gets a Jewish scientist (and family), without all the mediocre Jews to muck up an upscale suburb (from the perspective of many upscale non-Jews).

Using Israel as an American proxy in the region is arcane?

Only you might know that. Everyone else seems to think differently. The Israelis do not think that.

I don't think Israel is an American proxy. Perhaps, an argument can be made that Israel is a satellite of Fort Lauderdale?

Who might everyone be? Certainly millions of Muslims are not included.

What proxy would ever wish to acknowledge that they are a proxy?

Except as respects Muslim nukes, I don't think Israel is an American proxy either but I do wish to have you bless my goyim support of Israel and apparently you insist that I must have an ulterior motive. I'm afraid that I just can't buy into the notion that we need Jews in Palestine to permit the Second Coming, only so they can burn in hell thereafter.

I know the Fundamentalists hope the Jews will convert when they see Christ descending from Heaven in a nimbus of holy fire, but not to the extent that they aren't willing to sacrifice a few Bagel Benders to the tender mercies of Satan in order to facilitate The Rapture.

You being a bitter old Jew and all, I would have thought that you held Pastor Hagee in low regard.

But who knows?

Yours is a very interesting perspective Foofie, and I've enjoyed this thread very much as a result.

I'm not Rex Harrison, although I sometimes feel a bit like one of his roles when I talk to Gunga, Oralboy and Mr. Soggy, and speak their languages.

No **** you're not Rex Harrison.

Yeah, not only that Rex Harrison wasn't Rex Harrison either, he was Charlie Drake.

Never discouraged, Foofie just pukes up the same phony, racist stereotypes again and again. His depictions of Jews are as much racist stereotypes as his depictions of the Irish or the English.

More importantly, he uses the digressions to veer away from the drubbing he's taking on the subject of Israel and the phony Zionist bullshit used to justify their militarism and imperialistm. No surprises there.

To be quite honest I love the idea of you as Jimmy Cagney. Top of the world ma!

I would have chosen Jackie Gleason, whose television program i watched as a child. I took the image of him from the picture below, and used it as my avatar photo at an Irish web site i used to frequent (haven't posted there in ages).

Is that the series that inspired the Flintstones?

Yup . . . " The Honeymooners"--left to right, Jackie Gleason, Art Carney, Audrey Meadows and Joyce Randolph, playing Ralph Cramden, Ed Norton, Alice Cramden and Trixie Norton.

It's known as the series that inspired the Flintsones over here, but that's it. If it wasn't for the Flintstones we would know nothing about it. At least they show episodes of Sgt. Bilko so we can compare it to Top Cat.

The Honeymooners was a classic, and many staples of television comedy were born there. Jackie Gleason worked for the DuMont Television Network (which i believe was a New York regional network) and developed The Honeymooners as a sketch. CBS then convinced Gleason and Carney to come over to them, and made a series out of The Honeymooners. That was before we got a telelvision, in 1956, but CBS later re-broadcast the series, and i saw it then.

Groucho Marx's show ran for a dozen years or more until the early 1960s, and i saw it then. These DVDs are very interesting because they go back to 1950 when the show began.

I'm rarely nonplussed, but Foofie does that to me. I admit that I don't get into bunches of arguments with data back up hurling, though I appreciate data links generally.

This post of his (I assume but am not sure Foofie isn't a woman) really stops me, as in how can this be?

"You also, in my opinion, flippantly disenfranchise the 60 million Christian Zionists in the U.S., and others elsewhere, from their needing Israel to continue to exist as a Zionist state, based on their faith's theology. I understand that you have posted your lack of following your childhood religious teachings; however, I do find people from a Catholic background often showing an attitude that the world would be better off with assimilated Jews (aka, no Jews). That is just my opinion, since I have noticed that so many people of a Catholic background seem to find it very hard to commiserate with the Jewish awareness of almost being exterminated in WWII, and how that has resulted in a desire for a Jewish state."


This guy is out to lunch, at least in my lifetime and places.


Edit - and I read widely.