Palestinian Solidarity Campaign disrupts Israeli Concert. Yeah!!!

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

I don't know anyone here who is advocating that the Israelis be driven from their nation. What people of good conscience want to see it justice for the non-Jewish Palestinians.

You would have accepted the Trojan Horse as a gift?

3 Replies

@Foofie,

I agree, Foofie, that the fears you and many others have expressed have some basis. However, I believe you should consider them relative, not to some abstract concept of total security vs. grave danger, but rather to the real situation that exists today and the likely future, given observable trends operating with respect to Israel's security.

Israel enjoys a fairly vibrant economy and could prosper further with access to more land and more labor. The Palestinians too are an economcally active people - many are scattered across the Arab world from Morrocco to the Gulf and in many cases are among the chief economic innovaters there.

At the same time Israel is becoming increasingly isolated and steadily losing the sympathy and support it once enjoyed across the developed and undeveloped world, and doing so while the Arab world that surrounds it appears to be trying to reform the political structures that have held it back for so long. Worse the very actions Israel takes in the short term to respond to and limit the assaults of Hamas and other resistence groups tend primarily to accelerate this loss of support and increased international isolation - that process is both likely to continue and is likely a prime consideration on the part of the various resistance groups in choosing their tactics.

In my view these trends alone portent an ominous future for Israel, in its current configuration.

The Jewish people of Israel have already made an indellible on the life and economy of their region - they aren't going to be erased or wiped out by anyone. They have a lot to offer their neighbors and a lot to benefit from them. I believe that in view of all of these factors, Israel should consider some alternatives to the obviously self-destructive course on which they have been trapped since 1967.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

izzythepush wrote:

The state of Israel will always struggle with legitimacy whilst it continues to oppress the Palestinians.

What the hell does the word "whilst" mean? I think I know, but are you talking like Henry Higgins?

You're really going to win an argument when you resort to crude stereotyping.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Setanta wrote:

I don't know anyone here who is advocating that the Israelis be driven from their nation. What people of good conscience want to see it justice for the non-Jewish Palestinians.

You would have accepted the Trojan Horse as a gift?

Wow that's relevant.

0 Replies

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

My definition of anti-Semitic is that one (aka, non-Jew; aka, Gentile) believes that Jews are inherently different.

You're the one using 'us and them' language like 'Gentile' and 'Goyisha kopf.' You're the one making Jews appear different by lumping all the non-Jews together. It's even starting to piss off your supporters. Nobody likes being described by what they're not. Do you view yourself as a Heathen, Infidel or Emmet?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

The Irish (aka, Celts) were pushed into Hibernia from continental Europe by the Romans, and the Israelis were pushed out of Israel by the Romans in 60 AD, or so.

Wrong, as usual. Hibernia was only Hibernia in the minds of Romans who had never been there, and would never go there. The Kelts who inhabited Ireland had been there since before the world had heard of the Romans, and nobody "pushed" them there. In fact, the Irish invaded what we call Scotland and established a kingdom there, the Dál Riata, or Dalraida, after the appearance of the Romans. You're very confused about who was pushing whom, where and when. But it's my experience that you've always been confused about history, which appears to be, for you, a collection of fairy tales upon which you attempt to establish your bigotry. It often appears as though you've made it up on the spot for some goofy irrelevance you want to throw into a discussion, as it seems you are doing now.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Another typically ludicrous excursion into Foofie Fantasy--and one which does not at all address what was quoted. Not only have i not suggested that Israel "fold up its tent," i've pointed out that i do not suggest, nor do i see anyone else in this thread suggesting that the Israelis be driven from their nation. Your just turning the hysteria up a notch because, as is almost always the case, you have no rational argument. All you have is your blatant racist bigotry, in which you continue to see the world in terms of us and them.

Your vaunted Israeli military could not stop the Egyptians from crossing the Suez canal in 1973, nor throw them out when they had established a bridgehead there, which was what gave Sadat a strong bargaining position for the Camp David accords, which returned the Sinai to Egypt. When the Israelis attempted their invasion of the Lebanon recently, it was a miserable failure, with the troops themselves complaining of a logistical nightmare in which they couldn't even get food and water. The IDF completely failed to accompish its objectives, although, typically, they slaughtered at least hundreds, if not actually thousands, of unarmed civilians.

Pluckly little Israel, a western David to the vile and evil, oriental Goliath of the Arab armies is a favorite historical (and hysterical) myth of the Zionist crowd, but one which, since 1973, is increasing viewed with a justified and healthy skepticism by well-informed observers.

2 Replies

@Foofie,

Leaving aside that the Trojan Horse was a literary device, and leaving aside that it was in that context a creation of the invading Greeks, you once again have nothing relevant to address what you have quoted. The Palestinians did not invade the land, they were already there when the Zionists showed up.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:

My definition of anti-Semitic is that one (aka, non-Jew; aka, Gentile) believes that Jews are inherently different.

You're the one using 'us and them' language like 'Gentile' and 'Goyisha kopf.' You're the one making Jews appear different by lumping all the non-Jews together. It's even starting to piss off your supporters. Nobody likes being described by what they're not. Do you view yourself as a Heathen, Infidel or Emmet?

I haven't heard the term, but I would like to think of myself as an AA (American Ashkenazi). You see, I do believe that Ashkenazi Jews, by virtue of the crap they had to put up with in Eastern Europe developed collectively, by the process of elimination (the stupid and weak died off or assimilated), a degree of emotional toughness and obstinacy that made the "stiff-necked Hebrews" that Pharohs talked about mild by comparison.

So, you are correct, I do look upon the rest of the world as one big bellcurve, with the top of the bellcurve skewed to the left. And, those to the right side of the bellcurve tend to be clustered in certain socio-economic groups world-wide that I do not get to hobnob with, since regardless of all the education and economic strides Jews have made in the latter half of the 20th century, they are still social pariahs, regardless of the veneer of acceptance in public forums.

Now, the above thoughts, assuming they are correct, do not bother me, as long as I can assuage my feelings with the belief that I am not naive, and do not know the proverbial "score." If one is not a winner, that is fine, I believe, as long as one knows the score. My contempt is for all the deluded I observe that not only do not know the "score" (where they fall in society), but delude themselves with popular notions that because they are Americans, the country should do this or that in their behalf. That's laughable, since they do not know the score, and what drives this country.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Foofie wrote:
The Irish (aka, Celts) were pushed into Hibernia from continental Europe by the Romans, and the Israelis were pushed out of Israel by the Romans in 60 AD, or so.

Wrong, as usual. Hibernia was only Hibernia in the minds of Romans who had never been there, and would never go there. The Kelts who inhabited Ireland had been there since before the world had heard of the Romans, and nobody "pushed" them there. In fact, the Irish invaded what we call Scotland and established a kingdom there, the Dál Riata, or Dalraida, after the appearance of the Romans. You're very confused about who was pushing whom, where and when. But it's my experience that you've always been confused about history, which appears to be, for you, a collection of fairy tales upon which you attempt to establish your bigotry. It often appears as though you've made it up on the spot for some goofy irrelevance you want to throw into a discussion, as it seems you are doing now.

So the Celts were not ruling much of western Europe for 300 years, prior to being pushed into Hibernia?

2 Replies

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

So the Celts were not ruling much of western Europe for 300 years, prior to being pushed into Hibernia?

No. (That's a "no" to all!)

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Another typically ludicrous excursion into Foofie Fantasy--and one which does not at all address what was quoted. Not only have i not suggested that Israel "fold up its tent," i've pointed out that i do not suggest, nor do i see anyone else in this thread suggesting that the Israelis be driven from their nation. Your just turning the hysteria up a notch because, as is almost always the case, you have no rational argument. All you have is your blatant racist bigotry, in which you continue to see the world in terms of us and them.

Your vaunted Israeli military could not stop the Egyptians from crossing the Suez canal in 1973, nor throw them out when they had established a bridgehead there, which was what gave Sadat a strong bargaining position for the Camp David accords, which returned the Sinai to Egypt. When the Israelis attempted their invasion of the Lebanon recently, it was a miserable failure, with the troops themselves complaining of a logistical nightmare in which they couldn't even get food and water. The IDF completely failed to accompish its objectives, although, typically, they slaughtered at least hundreds, if not actually thousands, of unarmed civilians.

Pluckly little Israel, a western David to the vile and evil, oriental Goliath of the Arab armies is a favorite historical (and hysterical) myth of the Zionist crowd, but one which, since 1973, is increasing viewed with a justified and healthy skepticism by well-informed observers.

Do you notice the gusto with which pro and anti Israel posts are made by those not Jewish in this thread? My point being, considering they do not have a dog in this hunt, they do join the debate with gusto, more gusto I believe than if the topic was related to their specific ethnicity or religion?

What drives such obtrusiveness? I believe this reflects the Christian culture's belief that Jews should never be autonomous, without the guiding hand of some benevolent Gentile. It reflects a superiority complex, in my opinion. The Drum Majorette complex Dr. King talked of.

So, since Jews just want to be left alone, to live by themselves in peace, bothering no one, the two-thousand year Gentile pugnaciousness has finally resulted, post Holocaust, in a Middle East that may not end well.

You see, call me racist for my attitude towards the Gentile world, but I call Jews a solitary people. It is a cute trick today, in my opinion, to brand Jews racist, when racism was the driving force behind all the persecution of them for two millenia. And now, that some Jews have developed an anathema to being part of the Gentile world, they can be branded racist. Like I said, Goyisha kopf.

2 Replies

@Foofie,

Quote:

but I call Jews a solitary people.

And yet again, you are wrong. There are Jews all over the world.

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@Foofie,

Once again, you don't address the subjects of the post to which you respond--you go off into another flight of ludicrous Foofie fantasy.

Everyone in the west has "a dog in this hunt." Israel is not a place off somewhere in a void, it is at the crossroads of petroleum production for Europe and the United States. Once again, you attempt to frame this in terms of us and them, suggesting that what Jews do is no one else's business. It would pathetically hilarious how stupid and irrelevant your contention about Jews just wanting to live by themselves and be left in peace is, were it not for the tens of thousands, indeed, the hundreds of thousands, of Palestinians, Jordanians, Lebanese, Syrians and Egyptians--and i refer only to the non-combatants--who have been slaughtered in Israel's imperialistic wars. If Jews had just wanted to live in peace by themselves, why did they settle in Palestine?

I brand you--you in particular--racist. I'm not talking about all Jews, and you are not competent to speak for all Jews. You call me by a racist eptithet while pissing and moaning about how Jews have been treated for two thousand years and accusing everyone else of racism. I'm not responsible for that, and i'd not give a rat's ass what Jews did were it not for the profound and deleterious affect the stupidity, venality and greed of successive Israeli (Israeli, not Jewish) governments. No matter how Jews were treated for two thousand years, that is no justification for the slaughter of Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese and Egyptian non-combatant men, women and children--which seems to be the preferred outdoor sport of the Zionists.

You don't speak for all Jews, so you can jump up and down ranting on your soapbox all day, and you remain a racist irrelevancy.

2 Replies

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

So the Celts were not ruling much of western Europe for 300 years, prior to being pushed into Hibernia?

That's right, that's not true--it doesn't even bear a distant resemblence to the truth.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
but I call Jews a solitary people.

And yet again, you are wrong. There are Jews all over the world.

This is another example of Foofie acting as self appointed spokesmen for the diaspora. Most Jewish people I've met have been very sociable, great company and a good laugh.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Foofie

Clearly I sympathize with your position on Israel, but if you keep generalizing in a negative way about Gentiles, we will have to part ways.

Jews undoubtedly have a history of being oppressed, but to suggest that all Gentiles have, to one degree or another, a measure of anti-Semticism is simply wrongheaded.

My definition of anti-Semitic is that one (aka, non-Jew; aka, Gentile) believes that Jews are inherently different. Meaning they just think, react, have a different world-view, because they are Jews/Jewish. Now, let's be honest, even when non-Jews are not hostile to me, they usually have some reaction that gives away the feeling that they often think that Jews are inherently different. Perhaps, it is just amusement, as though I am some sort of novelty (like a bagel with cream cheese).

Or, sometimes it is a positive prejudice, in that they think I am more intelligent than I am.

Either way, once my Jewishness is noted, I am just not another person, but an archetype.

Only in the military was I treated like others mostly, and that was because, in my opinion, my fellow enlisted knew we were all in the same boat, and I could not be "different" even if I was back in civilian life.

Foofie

I don't pretend to know what your life experience has been, but it's fairly clear that you have an enormous chip on your shoulder.

Anyone and everyone that can be identified as a member of one group or another is subject to prejudice. In addition to racial and religious indentities this includes, obesity, baldness, beauty, age, locality etc.

Jews are different, and I'm sure there are differences among Jews even in Israel that lead to prejudice and stero-typing among Israelis. Every group that can claim an identity is different.

I assure you that I do not feel every Jew I meet is a member of an alien species, and I know I am hardly alone in this regard. If I am able to identify the person as a Jew (Usely because at some point they themselves make it known to me) then I know that in certain respects they are very likely to be different from me, but I can say the same for African-Americans, Fundamentalist Christians, European's and all women. It doesn't mean they must be different than me, but it's a good bet that they will be. So what? I like people who are different than me, and in some cases the more different the more interesting they are.

Yes, there are plenty of people who do think that Jews are somehow a race apart from the rest of humanity and a lot more that some of the posters in this thread are willing to admit, but these are very often the same people who think blacks or Muslims or blonde women are a race apart. If they don't and they save their bile for Jews, what difference does that make? They are still malignant.

You seem to be indicating that you prefer to be entirely left alone by all Gentiles and would prefer the Jews in Israel to be entirely left alone by all Gentiles as well. This sort of isolation is not only impossible, it may be pathological.

You also seem to be suggesting that Gentiles who defend Israel are not very different from those who criticize it as both are equally motivated by a overwhelming urge to stick their noses in the business of Jews.

I can also assure you that I would like nothing better than to not feel compelled to defend Israel, and not because I resent having The Gentile's Burden, but because it would mean that Israel is being treated fairly.

It's not that big of deal though. I'm going to defend Israel as strongly as I do irrespective of what you believe.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

That's right, that's not true--it doesn't even bear a distant resemblence to the truth.

Indeed ... and that's what I wanted to say with my "no". Wink

(Even some of those "mythical Celtic websites" wouldn't say such.)

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Well, and it's as absurd as suggesting that all people of Germanic descent are identical--there are Kelts and there are Kelts, and then there are Kelts.

2 Replies

@Setanta,

Yes, and those of the Hallstatt culture period, the La Tène culture period, (from La Tène Ia to La Tène III), and ...

0 Replies

Palestinian Solidarity Campaign disrupts Israeli Concert. Yeah!!!

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