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caused by antibiotics with yet another antibiotic?

 
 
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2011 10:38 pm
Does "caused by antibiotics with yet another antibiotic" mean:

caused by a variety of antibiotics?


Context:

"We are treating a disease caused by antibiotics with yet another antibiotic, which creates the conditions for re-infection from the same bacteria," said study co-author Dr. Charalabos Pothoulakis, director of UCLA's Inflammatory Bowel Disease Center and a professor of medicine in the division of digestive diseases. "Identification of new treatment modalities to treat this infection would be a major advance."

More:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110821141128.htm
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 1,147 • Replies: 13
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2011 10:45 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
Does "caused by antibiotics with yet another antibiotic" mean:

caused by a variety of antibiotics?


It's hard to say for sure, Ori. I suppose that a disease can be treated by a number of different antibiotics.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2011 11:56 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Does "caused by antibiotics with yet another antibiotic" mean:

caused by a variety of antibiotics?


It's hard to say for sure, Ori. I suppose that a disease can be treated by a number of different antibiotics.


I think it depends on which bacteria is the culprit of the disease.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 04:38 pm
@oristarA,

No.

Split the sentence into its constituent parts, and you'll understand it better.

Quote:
"We are treating a disease caused by antibiotics with yet another antibiotic."


We
are treating
a disease caused by antibiotics
with
yet another antibiotic
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 04:43 pm
@McTag,
Right. We just had an instance of that here. Daughter M was prescribed an antibiotic for a UTI; she subsequently developed a case of C-Diff (nasty, nasty gut bug that was resistant to the first antibiotic) and had to be treated with a different antibiotic because the first one had "caused" the C-Diff to proliferate by wiping out all of the normal gut bugs that usually keep the nasty ones in check.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 04:44 pm
@oristarA,
HA! I just looked at the link and saw that it's about C-diff!
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 06:54 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

HA! I just looked at the link and saw that it's about C-diff!


Welcome back JPB.

I've had an impression after reading the article in the link that we now will have yet another tool to fight superbugs. What do you say?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 06:55 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


No.

Split the sentence into its constituent parts, and you'll understand it better.

Quote:
"We are treating a disease caused by antibiotics with yet another antibiotic."


We
are treating
a disease caused by antibiotics
with
yet another antibiotic


Yes and I did.

Thank you McTag.

0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 07:09 pm
@oristarA,
It's too soon to tell. They've got enough positive data to go forward with clinical trials. Stay tuned.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 08:56 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
because the first one had "caused" the C-Diff to proliferate by wiping out all of the normal gut bugs that usually keep the nasty ones in check.


How does that happen, JPB? Did they keep giving massive doses that killed the good gut bugs? Or has that always been the case that good gut bugs have also been killed along with the infection being treated?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 09:47 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
because the first one had "caused" the C-Diff to proliferate by wiping out all of the normal gut bugs that usually keep the nasty ones in check.


How does that happen, JPB? Did they keep giving massive doses that killed the good gut bugs? Or has that always been the case that good gut bugs have also been killed along with the infection being treated?



Quote:
Clostridium difficile causes diarrhea and colitis by releasing two potent toxins into the gut lumen that bind to intestinal epithelial cells, initiating an inflammatory response. These toxins are released only when the Clostridium difficile bacteria are multiplying. When antibiotics are used to treat another infection, it changes the bacterial landscape in the gut and, in the process, may kill bacteria that under normal conditions would compete with Clostridium difficile for energy. Scientists believe this may be what provides the opportunity for Clostridium difficile to grow and release its toxins.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 09:54 pm
@oristarA,
Thanks, Ori.

Is there anything that indicates that good bacteria are also becoming antibiotic tolerant? I guess in a perfect drug world, that'd be the ideal situation.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2011 07:30 am
@oristarA,
I think it's more of an issue with which antibiotic is chosen first. In my daughter's case she was over-prescribed a "big gun" broad spectrum antibiotic for a routine UTI. It wiped out everything except the C-diff which then proliferated and caused a secondary infection (this time in her colon). She never should have been prescribed the Cipero -- it's not even indicated as first line treatment of UTIs, only "complicated UTIs" and hers certainly wasn't complicated. Of course, we only learned all this while sitting in the ER with her so she could get some IV solutions pumped in to counteract the dehydration associated with the C-diff infection.

The whole thing completely affected the normal workings of her gut. She was then prescribed one of the two antibiotics mentioned in the article along with a probiotic to try to reinstate normal flora. That was in early July. I don't think she's going to be one of the 20% that has to deal with chronic reinfection (a lifelong problem for many C-diff sufferers, particularly the elderly) because she is young and generally healthy, but she's still not back to her old self. She's dropped about 15lbs (10 of which she'd gained the year before as a college freshman) but she was already thin. She's 5'11" tall, weighs 137 lbs, and has no appetite whatsoever.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Aug, 2011 12:57 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I think it's more of an issue with which antibiotic is chosen first. In my daughter's case she was over-prescribed a "big gun" broad spectrum antibiotic for a routine UTI. It wiped out everything except the C-diff which then proliferated and caused a secondary infection (this time in her colon). She never should have been prescribed the Cipero -- it's not even indicated as first line treatment of UTIs, only "complicated UTIs" and hers certainly wasn't complicated. Of course, we only learned all this while sitting in the ER with her so she could get some IV solutions pumped in to counteract the dehydration associated with the C-diff infection.

The whole thing completely affected the normal workings of her gut. She was then prescribed one of the two antibiotics mentioned in the article along with a probiotic to try to reinstate normal flora. That was in early July. I don't think she's going to be one of the 20% that has to deal with chronic reinfection (a lifelong problem for many C-diff sufferers, particularly the elderly) because she is young and generally healthy, but she's still not back to her old self. She's dropped about 15lbs (10 of which she'd gained the year before as a college freshman) but she was already thin. She's 5'11" tall, weighs 137 lbs, and has no appetite whatsoever.


It sounds so familiar with many a story here in China. For some American doctors, there is as well a financial incentive to over-treat patients to make more money. The United States is governed under the law, however, while China is ruled by dictatorship and corruption is widespread even in its judicial system. Ordinary people in this oriental country have been suffering a lot with its crappy (or actually non-existent) medicare and medicaid.

But hope will be there as long as life is there. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I wish your daughter will finally recover.

Be well

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