Carbon 13 does not indicate non-life.

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Many scientists like to use carbon 13 to rule out possibility of past life in a sample. Although life prefers carbon 12 to carbon 13, life does contain carbon 13, especially C4 plants. Also, carbon 13 in CO2 could easily get into a fossil sample. So, detection of carbon 13 does not indicate non-life.

"if you’re a vegetarian your C13 levels will be relatively high, indicating a more plant-rich diet (a disproportionate number of the world’s major crops are C4 plants). Source: https://wyrdscience.wordpress.com/tag/plant-biology/

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@bewildered,

bewildered wrote:

Many scientists like to use carbon 13 to rule out possibility of past life in a sample.

Which scientist did this, can you give an example?

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Get ready for some ancient Martian mammals hitching rides on meteorites in a fossil form. He's tagged this one astronomy.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Get ready for some ancient Martian mammals hitching rides on meteorites in a fossil form.

What else is there? Wink

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Get ready for some ancient Martian mammals hitching rides on meteorites in a fossil form. He's tagged this one astronomy.

I'm sure that the Carbon13 argument for not ruling out life, is going to be the basis for some fractured logic inferring the opposite.

Scientists don't spend much time "ruling out" things. I can't even remember the last research team devoted to ruling out the possibility of Unicorns on Mars.

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@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

I can't even remember the last research team devoted to ruling out the possibility of Unicorns on Mars.

That's because, even though they won't admit it, they know it's true.

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@rosborne979,

"We found that the amino acids in a fragment of Tagish Lake were enriched in carbon 13, indicating they were probably created by non-biological processes in the parent asteroid," said Dr. Jamie Elsila of NASA Goddard, a co-author on the paper who performed the isotopic analysis. Source: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/features/2011/tagish-lake.html

The fact: Tagish Lake meteorite came from an asteroid, which originated from Mars billions of years ago when the C12 to C13 ratio was higher on Mars and in Martian atmosphere than the present ratio on Earth/Mars, no matter soil or atmosphere.

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@bewildered,

Correction:
The fact: Tagish Lake meteorite came from an asteroid, which originated from Mars billions of years ago. At that time on Mars C13 to C12 was higher than now on Mars. That is: heavier isotopes of carbon was more abundant then than now on Mars.

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@bewildered,

ON earth , a higher C12 to C13 ratio IS A DEFINITE INDICATOR of life. The first indications of life we have are from the ISua Formation of Greenland. C12 peks the ratio of 12/13.
If you are saying that its different out in space then you must have evidence that this is so. You are just clipping someone elses articles (who , I might add , doesnt deny the C12 to C13 ratio theory)

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@farmerman,

Didn't you say before that C13 ruled out past life in meteorites?
Why did you say that?

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@bewildered,

Correction:
The fact: Tagish Lake meteorite came from an asteroid, which originated from Mars billions of years ago. Mars has a higher ratio of C13 to C12 than Earth does.
So, one cannot apply the Earth ratio of C13 to C12 to Martian material to see if the Martian material had a biological origin or not.

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@bewildered,

Life takes the lighter isotopes . It works that way on earth and I dont think you have any evidence to say that its different on any other place in space. Your C13 conclusion is mere speculation based on a wish.
Wheres any evidence?

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@farmerman,

1. Martian atmosphere is 95% CO2, which is much more abundant than on Earth.
2. C12 in the Martian CO2 got lost to the space as C12 is lighter than C13 and Mars had little gravity billions of years ago.
3. Decomposition of Martian organisms could add C13 to soil and water, which in turn could increase C13 in Martian fossils before such Martian fossils got displaced into the space.
4. Billions of years ago and now, Mars or some areas of Mars has higher ratio of C13 ( in relation to C12) and O18 (in relation to O16) than Earth does.

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@bewildered,

Unsubstantiated assertions don't constitute evidence. For example, "gravity" is a function of mass. You claim Mars had "little gravity" billions of years ago. In order for it to have more "gravity" now, it would have had to have increased dramatically in mass. Where did the other mass come from? You just make this **** up as you go along.

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@bewildered,

you made a massive step "The green cheese jump" You said "Martian Organisms" NOONE has anmy evidence, its all mere hypotheses now. Most alll of the "fossils" reported are mere rock formations and concretions.

Deep ocean is higher in C13 also, yet life selects for C12 on earth.
In science we like to use comparitive models .

Quote:

1. Martian atmosphere is 95% CO2, which is much more abundant than on Earth.So what?
2. C12 in the Martian CO2 got lost to the space as C12 is lighter than C13 and Mars had little gravity billions of years ago. this is speculation entirely
3. Decomposition of Martian organisms could add C13 to soil and water, which in turn could increase C13 in Martian fossils before such Martian fossils got displaced into the space. This entire statement is again "evidence free" You are pullingg crap from out of the air cause you want to believe it
4. Billions of years ago and now, Mars or some areas of Mars has higher ratio of C13 ( in relation to C12) and O18 (in relation to O16) than Earth does.

See, youre just pulling fairy tales from the air in thos one. Oxygen isotopes havent even been sampled yet, They only speculate from looking at "layers" of martian ice using aerial spectrophotometry in their fly bys and earth telescopes

Youre outta your league . Id suggest that you take up science fantasy writing but learn some of the more obscure details cause sci fi readers are waay more sophisticated than your speculation allows. Theyll crucify you with some of this crap your spreading.

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On Mars, there is a lot of dry ice of frozen carbon dioxide, which could easily contaminate fossils on Mars. So, the amount of carbon 13 in Martian fossils is relatively much more than on Earth.

Concerning the ratio of C12 to C13, one cannot infer anything because
1. no one is sure of the ratio in ancient Martian atmosphere
2. no one is sure of the extent of contamination mentioned above (Martian fossils contaminated by dry ice CO2, sea floor CO2, and CO2 resulted from organism decomposition,etc.

Carbon 13 does not indicate non-life.

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