Obunganomics: US loses its AAA credit rating

@gungasnake,

gungashit wrote:

The one other guy who ever figured that one out and acted on it was Adolf Hitler, and that was the one thing the German Nazis ever did totally right, remaking Germany from a basket case in 32 to the world's strongest economy five years later.

I wondered how long it would be before you started praising Hitler.

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@H2O MAN,

Notice the -8 vote count on the post in which I mention the Gorelick wall and Chinagate. I suspect that answers our question as to how many real shitbirds there are on a2k and what number you need to get any right of center thread past a zero vote count.

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@gungasnake,

gungashit wrote:

Notice the -8 vote count on the post in which I mention the Gorelick wall and Chinagate. I suspect that answers our question as to how many real shitbirds there are on a2k and what number you need to get any right of center thread past a zero vote count.

No, it just shows how many people know you're a racist ****.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Gunga has invoked Godwins Law, so this thread should automatically be dead!!.

All the Sunday AM pundits on the GOP side were trying to backpedal that the Tea baggers didnt foment this S&P action.
Yet everyone agreed that govt is getting more and more dysfunctional and that the govt has no connection to the voters who put their reps there.

Also, as one columnist said,"Nobody in grassroots America really cares about the debt limit, they wasnt jobs and their 401Ks to stop tanking"

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Gunga has invoked Godwins Law, so this thread should automatically be dead!!.

Not exactly. Invoking Godwin's law means comparing the other guy to Hitler and that usually indicates comparison to Hitler acting badly. The thing I noted was the one thing Hitler and his organization ever did totally right and I was comparing that to the script money policies of Ben Franklin and Abe Lincoln.

Once again, the book you'd have to read before we could have a meaningful discussion on this sort of topic:

http://www.webofdebt.com

This is not a right wing book. Ellen Brown is a sort of a slightly left of center populist and populism is more or less orthogonal to questions of left/right. Eve Peron and Sarah Palin are/were both populists.

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@gungasnake,

Gunga - I haven't read the book but did look at the site and have my doubts on the accuracy of the monetary statistics cited by the author, Ms. Brown.

Anyway, to your point on the great German economic miracle during the years between 1932 and 1937, Hitler had nothing to do with it: it was his economics minister, Hjalmar Schacht, who brought it about - and Schacht was a true financial genius. He loathed the Nazis, btw, and as he kept voicing his objections to their political acts (they wisely left him alone to run the country's finances) Hitler finally had no choice but to fire him in 1937. Schacht was later implicated in the generals' - sadly failed - attempt to assassinate Hitler; he was later tried in Nuremberg and correctly found not guilty by that tribunal.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

...Once again, the book you'd have to read before we could have a meaningful discussion on this sort of topic:

http://www.webofdebt.com
.......................

cont'd: I scanned the site and a couple of chapters and have to tell you Ms. Brown's numbers on derivatives are wrong by a factor of 10 at least:

Quote:

...Not only is virtually the entire money supply created privately by banks, but a mere handful of very big banks is responsible for a massive investment scheme known as "derivatives," which now tallies in at hundreds of trillions of dollars...

That's not right - total gross derivatives worldwide are a few tens of trillions (not hundreds) and net derivatives a lot less than that. Ms. Brown is a lawyer by training and a populist, as you say, and her policy ideas are close to Ron Paul's, but he's a lot more careful with numbers. You want to lose that link Smile

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@High Seas,

Last reasonable estimate I ever saw, total derivatives were closer to a quadrillion dollars, Brown's book was first published in 08 and I'm not sure whether she ever totally updated everything since then.

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@High Seas,

http://www.rense.com/general82/out.htm

Quote:

The notional value of all outstanding derivatives now totals approximately $1.144 QUADRILLION.

This appears to be Bank of International Settlement Spin to announce the largest gain in derivatives outstanding since they started to report. As of the last report it appeared that both listed and OTC derivatives was under $600 trillion. Now listed credit derivatives alone stood at $548 Trillion. The OTC derivatives are shown as $596 billion notional value, as of December 2007. One can only imagine what number they are at now.......

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@gungasnake,

One of the premises that S & P used for it's change was the trend to not create more revenue in the future. The notion of "trickle down" economics needs to be busted.

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@jcboy,

AS I read it there hasn't been much to trickle down lately. QE-1 went to banks which are hoarding it and QE-2 went overseas.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

http://www.rense.com/general82/out.htm

Quote:

The notional value of all outstanding derivatives now totals approximately $1.144 QUADRILLION.

This appears to be Bank of International Settlement Spin to announce the largest gain in derivatives outstanding since they started to report. As of the last report it appeared that both listed and OTC derivatives was under $600 trillion. Now listed credit derivatives alone stood at $548 Trillion. The OTC derivatives are shown as $596 billion notional value, as of December 2007. One can only imagine what number they are at now.......

Sorry Gunga - so far at least we can leave quadrillions to astronomers and the Zimbabwean Central Bank. The total derivatives market worldwide is not hundreds of trillions as your Ms Brown claims, and not quadrillions as your latest conspiracy theorist claims. It's tens of trillions as I posted to you earlier:

Quote:

The amount banks would have to pay if all outstanding OTC derivatives were settled, one measure of market risk, totaled $21.1 trillion at the end of 2010, according to the Bank for International Settlements, or BIS, the lowest since it was at $20.4 trillion in June 2008. At the height of the financial crisis in 2008, the total was $33.9 trillion.

One significant contribution you could make to these "experts" you keep quoting is asking them to resolve the Zimbabwe hyperinflation Smile

http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/graphics/zimbabwe2.jpg

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@gungasnake,

The banks are paid interest by the Fed - which keeps their balances - so it's not hoarding. You want hoarding, try exchange rate for $100 bills in Zimbabwe:

http://nehandaradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ZimbabweDollars468x333.jpg

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@High Seas,

If I were going to make up facts instead of looking them up, I'd choose a topic less easy to check than this one.

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@High Seas,

Quote:

Sorry Gunga - so far at least we can leave quadrillions to astronomers and the Zimbabwean Central Bank.

That isn't what the article says. Try reading it instead of copying and pasting bits and pieces of it.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

The excerpt I quoted isn't taken from one of your sites, it's from the official (public) reports of the BIS (Bank for International Settlements, in Basel, Switzerland) and of the Comptroller of the Currency (in DC). Your articles are off by orders of magnitude. Here's a link to Bloomberg from last week saying the exact same thing I just did and quoting the same 2 sources. Nobody said you, personally, made up any facts, just that your sources are NOT reliable.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-04/credit-markets-safest-since-2008-as-derivatives-migrate-to-clearinghouses.html

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@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Nobody said you, personally, made up any facts, just that your sources are NOT reliable.

Tell us something we don't know.

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@High Seas,

Your source is citing a 21T number for a total cost to banks of settling all outstanding otc derivatives while Ellen Brown and the article on Rense are talking about total paper value of derivatives in the world which apparently is over a quadrillion at this point.

I have zero reason to believe that you have any qualifications to be claiming to have debunked Ellen Brown or claiming that Ellen Brown is less than a reliable source, that's like Little WeeWee Jones talking about getting into the ring with Joe Louis or something like that. Ellen Brown represents the heavyweight division in this sort of thing and it's not clear that you are anything more than a bantam weight if that.

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@jcboy,

It's been busted and replaced with Obama's "trickle up" poverty.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

... Ellen Brown represents the heavyweight division in this sort of thing and it's not clear that you are anything more than a bantam weight if that.

Since my posts on this topic are limited to citing - carefully documented - sources, the issue of any relative weights to be assigned to Ms Brown and myself does not arise. From all I've seen of the lady's oeuvre, though, I'm deeply grateful to discover that she and I are not to be assigned to the same class <G>

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Obunganomics: US loses its AAA credit rating

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