Obunganomics: US loses its AAA credit rating

@H2O MAN,

Yes, I know. I really was being unfair to douche bags.

@farmerman,

Douche bag Timmy the Tax cheat and douche bag Barry Obama have been unfair to America.

I think what you fail to understand is that... the majority of this debt is old and the spending habits of the US is as ingrained as the belief taxes are evil. Your entire system seems to be broken and this is not the fault of one man or party, this is the fault of the voters.
You vote to pay a pittance in taxes compared to the most of the other countries on either the A+++ or A++ list. You vote to spend more on wars, more on heathcare than any other country and for what? You vote in robber barons who make promises yet only protect their pocketbooks.
This is what gets me, this whole debacle from the housing bust to the debt crises has proven to the world, that although you say you are the leaders of the world, you rarely vote with that in mind. This debt thing could screw up a lot of economies - world wide.
And we have the mindless Obunganomic title of this thread to show a certain knuckle dragging part of the USA doesn't. *******. get. it. This is bigger than two party politics, it's proof positive the US is pretty fucked up and has been for a very long time. It's time for a paradigm shift and if congress needs the boot, hopefully the voters will figure it out. Otherwise, the dire predictions of high inflation and a perennially depressed economy wont be far off.

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Obunganomics is a good term for it. I mean, it would be one thing if the guy were to borrow these gigantic sums of money and have something to show for it, but that isn't what has happened and you have to at least consider the possibility that the goal really is crashing the system.

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@gungasnake,

He didn't borrow the money alone, you helped. See that's how it works, you live in a country and you, yes you... have to accept this debt. You supported Bush and his wars, did you think you wouldn't have to pay for them? You support a shitty healthcare system that covers only the rich, who incidentally don't pay the taxes they should, but you vote for the candidates that help them keep their money. You should be proud of your choices.. No.

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@Ceili,

Which part of that little rant would you like me to dissect first?

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@gungasnake,

Gunk, you & that other piece of **** h2zero have got to be the two thickest bastards I've ever come across on the web.
Why don't you show your faces, afraid we'll see your big thick redneck heads. You pair of racist pricks.
**** for brains. You're the dregs of humanity.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-5DDed2p91K2KwXT__lSjwZN7hXPQMe85pX9-rj5Vr6OU6y5S-w

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@eurocelticyankee,

I am waiting for the gunga dissection. Ill bet it will be full of all sorts of qualifiers that dont blame the Iraq war for any portion of the debt .

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@farmerman,

You know FM, I really didn't want to get involved. There I was watching a movie,
happily minding my own business, but i took a glance at the computer during an
ad and what can i say, these two idiots grind my gears.
The most stupid one dimensional pair of dumb asses I've ever come across.
So probably against my better judgement I had to tell them such.
As for Ceili, that girl makes more sense in a sentence that the two idiots have in
every post they've ever made and the really funny thing is the pair of them are to
stupid to notice it. She'll make mincemeat of them.
The eternal amnesia concerning bush and his administration is always good for a
laugh too, if we don't talk about, it didn't happen, DUMB ASSES.

I'm going back to my movie.....

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@Ceili,

For starters...

The "Gorelick Wall" isn't an imaginary topic:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=%22gorelick+wall%22&pbx=1&oq=%22gorelick+wall%22&aq=f&aqi=g-v1g-m2g-bm1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3338l6574l0l6736l15l14l0l0l0l0l274l2076l3.9.2l14l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=c5047b0756e10648&biw=1082&bih=751

It was named after Jamie Gorelick who actually ran SlicKKK KKKlintler's justice dept. while Janet Reno mostly sat around drunk. The main objective of the wall was to keep the FBI out of any sort of an investigation of Chinagate, also not a figment of rightwing imaginations:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&biw=1082&bih=751&source=hp&q=chinagate&pbx=1&oq=chinagate&aq=f&aqi=g-s1g2g-s2&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1734l3188l0l3402l9l7l0l0l0l0l239l1097l1.5.1l7l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=c5047b0756e10648

The Gorelick also prevented the kind of interaction between the CIA and FBI which likely would have prevented 9-11 and also the "Bush Wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=11&gs_id=18&xhr=t&q=9-11++clues&qe=OS0xMSAgY2x1ZXM&qesig=hUWnftcyzTE1pn1zNBLUhw&pkc=AFgZ2tkTvRtUiNRVWUx6W9qx0YnyvsHPVVPoQQK0iUxEimynBIh8fk8tTU8maGPperp_szUTcMTVHABOWFXf2zhzEG5W4G3z-Q&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=9-11++clues&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=c5047b0756e10648&biw=1082&bih=751

I mean, these kinds of google searches are not rocket science or difficult to perform. All that is required is an honest intention to get your head out of the ass of the demoshit party and its ideologies.

SlicKKK KKKlintler thought it was basically harmless to sell H bomb secrets to the chicoms for DNC cash, figuring what the ****, nobody was ever going to start any sort of an atom bomb war and they'd get there on their own 15 - 25 years down the road anyhow.

The problem: The US and Russia almost went to nuclear war on two or three occasions during the cold war and each of those near misses resulted from a computer and/or information systems malfunction. Now, the US and Russia have been dealing with computers more or less continuously since the end of WW-II while China had very little experience with computers prior to SlicKKK KKKlintler selling them nuclear weapon secrets. For every way there ever was for such a fuckup to occur in Russia or the US, there'd have to be ten or twelve ways for it to happen in China.

Just a thought.

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Oh yeah, the question of why pubbies don't seem to be that much into trying to fix the problem by taxing the rich...

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_080511/content/01125108.guest.html

Limbaugh says it about as well as anybody:

Quote:

...Now, this UK Daily Mail story that you will not see in the US media. "Soak the rich, eh? They do not have the money. A report from the Internal Revenue Service found that the rich --" and the rich are defined this way: 8,274 people with incomes of $10 million per year or more. What do you think those 8,274 people earned combined in 2009? Snerdley, take a wild guess. All of you out there, take a wild guess in your mind. I'm not asking you to call and I'm gonna tell you what the number is here in just a second. But just think about this, 8,274 people with incomes of $10 million per year or more.

Now, you got Buffett in there and Gates at their $40 to 50 billion, but that's their net worth. What do they earn? It's a different number. But you take all of those people, just give me a number, what do you think, 8,274 people with incomes of $10 million per year or more, what was the combined total income earned of all those 8,274 people in 2009? One trillion, $250 billion. That's what you say, Brian? Snerdley says a trillion. The answer is $240 billion. Brian, you were $10 billion off. That's it. That's right. That's it. The 8,274 people with incomes of $10 million per year or more earned a total of $240 billion in 2009.

"Even of you confiscated every dime they earned, you would barely have enough money to cover government spending for 24 days." In fact, this $240 billion, I mean that's pretty close to the actual real number of budget cuts in the debt deal when you strip everything away. Now, about 25% of that money already goes to the federal government for federal income. So actually that $240 billion would run the government for 18 days.

"Another 227,000 people earned $1 million or more in 2009. Millionaires averaged taxes of 24.4% of their income -- up from 23.1% in 2008." Now, you might be asking, how did that happen? Well, the Bush tax cuts, folks. Obama's tax increases hadn't started, and Obama's not immaculated yet. "They, too, did not earn enough money to come anywhere close to covering the annual deficits that are $1.5 trillion a year." So 8,274 people who earn $10 million per year or more, earn a total of $240 billion in 2009. Another 227,000 people earned a million dollars or more in 2009. But it doesn't come anywhere close to covering the deficit of $1.5 trillion. .......,

Basically, there just aren't anywhere nearly enough rich people to tax if that's the way you want to fix the problem, thus the main target of demoKKKrat wealth-spreading has to be the middle class; there is no other target available.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Rant... it was 5 sentences. loosely... Here's a rant.
Gunja. I'm writing this really slowly. Try to keep up. I'm not sure how we got onto 9/11 the CIA or the FBI... Janet Reno, chic coms, WHAT? WTF?
I have no idea what that diatribe was on about...?
Look. Simply.
The debt is like a snow ball, rolling down a really big mountain, gaining in speed and girth, eventually it becomes an avalanche.
The debt is accrued. - look it up.
It didn't happen over night, nor did it magically occur in the last three years.
Try to think beyond your little bubble, think globally. I don't give a **** about two party politics blather. I'm an observer. I don't have to live in the **** hole you want to create.
I'm telling you very simply the way you think is like nailing a spike through your foot. It's not getting you anywhere.
Basically taxes, as evil as you might think they are, are necessary. They pay for things like sewage, garbage, roads, bridges, education, policing, war - and god knows you've all got enough of that. Taxes pay for our way of life. If you traveled beyond what ever box your stuck in, you'd realize that even though your nation was built upon a tax revolt, the simple things in life can be easily over looked when the basics are so readily provided. However, they must be paid for. If you want soccer fields, libraries or the need to bring democracy to nations half a world away, so be it. But... Pay for it.
I've been to India. There are more millionaires than there are Canadians. Fairly easy to do, I guess, when you pay people peanuts, where life means nothing - unless you have money. You, tea party fools, are walking a plank, contributing to a decaying society.
Do the candidates you vote for stand for anything beyond local one issue party politics or do they know the first thing about finance, or perhaps.. the world beyond your neck of the woods? Are they capable of understanding the consequences of this down grading or do they think this will teach Obama a lesson? Do you understand the difference??? I think not. At least not according to the links above.
I'm telling you this is endemic. It's an American identity thang... You think the world should play by your playbook, but Gunja, it's messed up. It's not a Democrat thing or a Repulican thing, its the whole kit and caboodle. I'm saying, instead of marching off to war to buoy your economy, you should overhaul the whole system.
Politics shouldn't be about abortion or the church someone goes to, it should be about big ideas, you know, going forward. Promoting schools, ingenuity, proper planning i.e good infrastructure, enforced laws that protect big business from manhandling the environment. These are some of the things government should do, look out for the average joe. Not protect the rich. And while I appreciate the cherry picking job on the plus 10 million group... There are plenty more people between the 250,000 and the 10 mil ceiling who aren't paying anywhere near the equivalent to the industrial world.
However, since I am not a citizen of your fine country, I have no idea of the tax break down. What I do know is that, per capita, Americans pay far less taxes than any of the other nations on the most desirable list. And... they get far less services. Why is that?
Less holidays, very expensive health care, more war...
So while you babble on about the cold war??? try to catch up.
This is 2011. You are in a whole lotta trouble, time to start swimming instead of holding your breath and treading water.
Ask Argentina about inflation...
I could go on.
I can't be bothered.
Goodnight.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Limbaugh says it about as well as anybody:

Quote:

...Now, this UK Daily Mail story that you will not see in the US media.

Only a fat, racist **** like Limbaugh would take the Daily Mail seriously. This is the paper that supported Hitler in the 1930s.

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@Ceili,

Quote:

The debt is accrued. - look it up.
It didn't happen over night, nor did it magically occur in the last three years.

It just went critical in the last three years and that should have taken another twenty or thirty.

Quote:

Basically taxes, as evil as you might think they are, are necessary.

No they aren't. The United States went until 1913 without any sort of an income tax. The system set in place in 1913 called for a central banking cartel (Federal Reserve), a system of basing money on federal debt as described and advocated by Hamilton, and an income tax to pay the interest on that debt while rolling principle over in perpetuity. This amounted to a usurpation on the part of the banks since the constitution allows only the government to coin money. Under this system, banks are creating money out of thin air and charging us interest on it; the government obviously could as easily create its own money out of thin air without anybody owing interest.

Best source on the internet for questions as to the history and theory of money:

http://www.webofdebt.com

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Basically taxes, as evil as you might think they are, are necessary.

No they aren't. The United States went until 1913 without any sort of an income tax.

You really are incredibly stupid. The US still had taxes, but I'm not surprised that a lackey like you would object to income tax, as it is probably the fairest form of taxation. Don't expect the fat cats to let you into their country clubs though. Nobody wants to be seen in public with an obsequious toady.

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@gungasnake,

The real impact of S&P’s downgrade is political, not economic.

Quote:

It’s tempting to dismiss Standard & Poor’s downgrade of U.S. long-term Treasury bonds as no big deal in the real world. It’s also tempting to describe it as a broad criticism of the whole political system, a pox-on-both-your-houses curse at the intransigence of both Republicans and Democrats.

Both of those conclusions would be mistakes.

t’s probably true that S&P’s first-ever downgrade of U.S. Treasuries from AAA to AA+ will have little impact on interest rates. Credit ratings, though hugely important, are only one of many factors affecting the cost of borrowing. The more important factors are broad forces of supply and demand for Treasuries, and the outlook for inflation and growth. That’s why Japan has been downgraded three different times in the past decade (it’s currently AA-) yet its long-term rates are lower than those on U.S. Treasuries.

It’s also true that S&P is hardly some kind of Delphic Oracle. It and the other rating agencies were almost criminally negligent about the risks of subprime mortgages during the housing bubble. And it’s not as if S&P told investors anything about U.S. fiscal problems on Friday that they didn’t already know.

So what’s new?

The big new element on Friday was an official outside recognition that U.S. creditworthiness is being undermined by a new factor: political insanity. S&P didn’t base its downgrade on a change in the U.S. fiscal and economic outlook. It based it on the political game of chicken over the debt ceiling, a game that Republicans initiated and pushed to the limit, and on a growing gloom about the partisan deadlock. Part of S&P’s gloom, moreover, stemmed explicitly from what a new assessment of the GOP’s ability to block any and all tax increases.

(more at the source)

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@revelette,

Quote:

... It based it on the political game of chicken over the debt ceiling, a game that Republicans initiated and pushed to the limit, and on a growing gloom about the partisan deadlock.

In that case, there's nothing to worry about. After January of 2013, the demoKKKrat party will be gone and the gridlock will be gone.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

So now gunga admits that the GOP teabaggers are actually foreign subversives bent on destroying our country

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

IzzythePOOP:

Quote:

You really are incredibly stupid. The US still had taxes, but I'm not surprised that a lackey like you would object to income tax, as it is probably the fairest form of taxation.

You had tariffs before 1913 and income taxes were imposed for short periods of time at a couple of points in time such as the civil war but generally tariffs and duties covered all government expenses. As compared to present day realities, schools and any number of other things which governments pay for now were paid for and operated at the most local possible level, usually with private funds, and that had the advantage of the greater efficiencies which people running their own lives achieve.

But the kicker is this: an honest government, if there ever were to be such a thing, could simply print its own money and spend it into existence with no taxes needed anywhere in the picture and no inflation or other evil would result. That assumes that the government were using money thus created for rational and decent purposes.

For instance, picture two shipwreck survivors on an island with five dollar bills left over from their previous lives and suppose there were five clams on the island; a dollar would clearly be worth one clam. Now picture the first guy hacking up a coconut tree with a machete and creating a crude printing press and killing an octopus and using the press and octopus ink to print up five new dollar bills, and paying them to the second guy to dig up fifteen more clams. That's right, the value of money on the island would be doubled simply by printing it.

Nothing is needed as a base for money in that picture at all; the only two meaningful things in the picture are productivity, and an element of trust. The three American presidents who ever figured that one out and acted as if they were prepared to act on it were McKinley, Lincoln, and JFK i.e. the three presidents who were assassinated. Ben Franklin also figured that one out and was termed the "father of script money" for instituting the idea in the colonies. He created a super economy in the colonies by thus abolishing the gold standard until British merchants went screaming to George II about the way the thing was being run in New England and George forbade the practice, crashing the colonies into depression and the revolutionary war, or did you think anybody would ever go to war over a tax on tea?

The one other guy who ever figured that one out and acted on it was Adolf Hitler, and that was the one thing the German Nazis ever did totally right, remaking Germany from a basket case in 32 to the world's strongest economy five years later.

http://www.webofdebt.com

1 Reply

@farmerman,

There are a baker's half dozen or so big issues which I have with pubbies and conservatives while pretty much everything dems ever do is some sort of issue so that I generally vote against democrats. But the issues in that baker's half dozen are big and money is one of those. The only politician I see in either party who shows any real signs of understanding money is Kucinich who dems themselves view as a kook.

I share Ellen Brown's view that what is ultimately needed is the abolition of the system of money set up in 1913 and its replacement with something more rational.

http://www.webofdebt.com

That of course does not change the fact that Bork Obunga has basically spent four or five trillion dollars with nothing to show for it, and you still have to suspect that crashing the present system is the goal, particularly given Obunga's association with radicals like Ayers.

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Obunganomics: US loses its AAA credit rating

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